Author Christine Devane on Inspiring Shy Children Through Her Book, ‘Elephant Beach’

Mark (: 00:00

Christine Devane, thank you so much for coming to the show and it's wonderful to have you here. And how are doing?

Christine Devane (: 00:06

Thank you for having me on and I'm doing good. How are you?

Mark (: 00:10

I'm very well, thank you. I've been reading a lot about your background and your book and I'm excited to bring you to the audience today. I think you have a very positive message to share with the world and I'm happy to help share that message. So maybe you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and little bit of your background and we can get into Elephant Beach.

Christine Devane (: 00:32

Sure. So growing up, I was very shy. I enjoyed reading books. My favorite books were animal books. One of my first books that I really enjoyed was a biography about Jane Goodall. So I was very sad to hear about her passing. And I actually wanted to be a vet, but I cannot stomach the sight of blood. ⁓ that career path did not work for me.

Mark (: 00:55

you

Christine Devane (: 00:56

So when I was a teenager, I started working with children after school programs, babysitting, and I truly enjoyed it because it was different every day. was rewarding. You got to see the kids learn. You also got to use your creativity. So then I went to college at Marimott College and then after that I became a teacher. So I taught.

third grade at a Catholic school, St. Augustine for a year. And then I moved to public school. I taught there for 12 years in Waltham. And when I was teaching, I realized how important read-alouds were and story time. It was my favorite time of the day because all of the kids sat on the floor and we were able to have really good discussions because most books teach social skills somehow. And a lot of kids had their own experiences to talk about.

And it was during that time that I realized there really weren't a lot of books on being shy. And every year in my classroom, I had all different personalities and there was a lot of shy kids out there. So I felt like I wanted to write something that they could identify with. So I joined a lot of author groups. I started going to workshops. I started going to conferences. There's a big group called the SCBWI there.

amazing. So I went to one in Springfield, one in New York City, and then I joined a smaller group where we met once a month and we would bring stories and critique them. And I sent it out everywhere and then I didn't hear anything. I left the costume. have three small kids and then someone reached out to me last year. So here I am now. Yes.

Mark (: 02:35

That's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, you know,

it's not easy to get your book published. So congratulations on that. ⁓

Christine Devane (: 02:42

Well, thank you.

Mark (: 02:43

that's a tough slog. I tried to do that years ago and I remember going to conferences and workshops in the city and all around and ⁓ one of the first messages you'd get from writers where they get up and speak is, ⁓ you know, you have really no chance of getting published and be like, great. You know, really encouraging. So congratulations because I know that's a mountain to climb and it's a huge feather in your cap that you got it published and what you're doing with it. And I'm looking forward to talking about what you're doing I'm curious.

Christine Devane (: 02:57

Yeah.

Mark (: 03:10

When you taught in Catholic school and public school, what was the big difference for you there?

Christine Devane (: 03:12

⁓

Mark (: 03:16

Was there much of a difference for you as a teacher, or did it seem to be fairly fluid?

Christine Devane (: 03:21

There was some differences. mean, obviously teaching religion and going to church. So those things were different. But besides that, it was pretty much the same. mean, they're still kids, they're still learning the same things. So it basically was parallel. There was just some things different. Like I teaching religion, going to church.

Mark (: 03:25

Right. But like aside from that part.

I'm curious about what your experience was like as a shy child too and what you did to overcome it. So maybe we could talk about that first and we can get into the other stuff.

Christine Devane (: 03:47

Sure. So when I was growing up, like I said, I was very quiet and I didn't always enjoy certain things in school. So when I became a teacher, I tried not to do that. So one thing that I really didn't like was when the teacher called on me, I would turn bright red. I just didn't like being called on, caught off guard. So when I became a teacher, I tried not to do that. And I tried to allow for kids to raise their hands. And when they wanted to share, they could share because I do identify with those children.

that don't have such an easy time sharing with the class. And as I said, there are so many different personalities in a classroom. Every year you're going to get shy kids. And I did identify with them and I felt bad for them because I know that it's not easy coming to school and being put in situations where you have to be social and you might not want to be. So I tried to make that easier and just to allow for them to work alone if they wanted to, but also put them in group settings and not make them feel

left out. another thing I did was I tried not to let kids necessarily pick partners. So at the beginning of the year, they filled out a clock buddy paper and everybody had a clock buddy and say two o'clock, this was your buddy, they worked with that person. Because I felt like sometimes when you say, turn and pick a partner, there's always going to be a kid that doesn't have a partner. And there's always going to be kids that find partners first, and then there's some that feel left out. So I tried not to do that. So I think

Growing up shy made me realize certain things about children that I tried to implement in my classroom. And now with my kids, my son is very extroverted, my older one, but my middle one and my younger one, they're shy. So I'm trying to help them overcome it without pushing them into certain situations and kind of letting them have their own personality.

Mark (: 05:40

It's such a tremendous lesson and I'm so glad you brought it up. mean, teachers have to be connected to their students, You have to be open to the person that they are, And now...

not pushing in the directions that we want them to always go. mean, yes, we need to encourage them to do things and there's things that need to get done, but you also have to accept the human being and the fact that you were able to consciously be aware of your own shyness as a child and be able to translate that to being a teacher and respecting children's places is amazing. And that's what I feel like we always need to be doing. And I think that's the message that I think all teachers need to have. And administrations need to push.

for teachers to have, to have that openness to allow children to be themselves, because I think that's really challenging. And you see what happens when kids are isolated and on their own and feeling rejected or not able to communicate socially. A lot of bad things can happen now. And what a wonderful, thing that you've done as a teacher and continue to do. I want teachers to hear this message. It's really, really important. I love Clock Buddies. What a great idea. Did you come up with that?

Christine Devane (: 06:35

Thank you.

No, it was a worksheet I found somewhere, but I loved it, so I used it every year and they filled it out on the first day of school and that way they kept it in their folder and we would just use that throughout the year to pick partners and then sometimes I would pick numbers out of a hat just trying to do it randomly.

Like I said, so there's not the child that feels left out or feel sad that they're not picked because we all know there's kids that are going to be picked first and there's going to be kids that are not picked. So just trying to alleviate that stress from children, I think takes a weight off the shy kids.

Mark (: 07:13

Of

gosh, absolutely. you were a hero to them, I'm sure, because you saved them a lot of anxiety, no doubt.

Christine Devane (: 07:24

Thank you.

Mark (: 07:28

The book is Elephant Beach. I want to just ask you about elephants first. And what's your connection to elephants? Because I think elephants are amazing too. And I had a friend who loved elephants so much that literally everywhere in our house were just statues of elephants with the tusk up all over the place. Do you have that kind of thing in your house? Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 07:32

Yeah. ⁓

Alright.

Yes, I do have a lot of elephants. So growing

up, my parents and grandparents traveled a lot and they would bring me back lucky elephants. So I have a huge collection. As you said, the trunk always has to be up because the trunk down is supposed to be bad luck. And I was drawn to them not only because of their size, but also their personalities. They're very kind, warm, they're very nurturing, they're very social. So when I was trying to think of a character for a book, I thought that

Mark (: 08:03

Right.

Christine Devane (: 08:15

an elephant would be perfect because they are so kind and also they're playful and kids think they're funny because of their size. So I just thought that it would be a great character, a great fit and yeah, they're just fun animals. I actually traveled to Africa and saw them in the wild so that was pretty cool. But ⁓ yeah, they're amazing animals.

Mark (: 08:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Wow. That was intense.

Yeah, I feel the same way about them. It's funny because I play music just for a hobby and always thought about like what name of a band So I came up with Mission Elephant and Elephant because of those very, same characteristics. You know, it was just very appealing because they're just, they're good people, these elephants. So how did...

Christine Devane (: 08:56

you.

Mark (: 09:00

you approach being a writer. Was that something that was natural for you? Were you always writing or was that something when you had this idea, which I want to talk about how it developed for you, this book, was that something that was a natural transition for you into writing or was that something that was kind of a new experience?

Christine Devane (: 09:17

So I did always enjoy writing and when I went to college my major was English. So writing has always been something that I enjoyed. I've always done it. So when I wanted to write the story, I started just writing but there is a lot of drafting and editing that goes into children's books because

there's not that many words. You want to make the words be meaningful and you also want to make the words be something that kids can read. So I came up with the idea and then there was just a lot of back and forth and editing. And like I said, those critique groups were amazing because I would bring the story and I would get feedback and they would say, this works, that doesn't work, this works, that doesn't work. So

you want to make them count.

Mark (: 09:58

But each, I was gonna say each

word is so important, because there's so few of them, correct? You really need to get your idea across in very few words. ⁓ It's challenge. It's definitely interesting. When I worked with my students, most kids were special needs and deaf kids and I would do plays with them and I had to learn how to create an entire...

Christine Devane (: 10:03

Yes.

Mark (: 10:19

plot and show just with the fewest words possible because they had hard time memorizing So you really learn to edit yourself down. ⁓ not making this about me, I just feel like I relate to what you're talking about because that's the whole point, to minimize the words but maximize the point in the message. So good for you because it's an amazing way to craft it. ⁓

Christine Devane (: 10:26

Yes.

Thank you. Thank you.

Mark (: 10:42

There's so many themes that seem to come up in this book. There's spontaneity, there's laughter, there's fun. What else we got? We got connection, courage, acceptance, all these wonderful messages. How does the book translate these messages for kids?

Christine Devane (: 10:56

So the biggest message that I tried to convey in the book was that it's okay to be shy and sometimes shy kids want to be left alone. So the little girls by herself at the beach, the elephants approach her, she doesn't want to join them. And at first she kind of thinks they're annoying because they get sand on her towel and they block the shade. And then when she does take that leap and join the group, she has fun.

So I want shy kids to see that it's okay to be nervous to join a group, but sometimes when we try to join a group, we can end up having fun. So she would have had fun by herself reading a book, but she has a different kind of fun with the elephants because they make waves in the water and they are able to build a really big sandcastle. So by taking that step and stepping outside of her comfort zone, she was able to have a different kind of fun beach day. So I want...

shy kids to see that. And then also for the extroverts to see that sometimes it's nice to approach a child that's by themselves and invite them to be in the group. So there's messages for both sides. So there's messages for the shy kids that it's okay to take a little while to warm up to a group. And for the extroverts that maybe it's nice to ask someone if they want to come and join the group.

Mark (: 12:15

yeah, invite them in. Was this girl kind of based on your experiences as a little girl? Or was there anybody else that you had in mind, or was it an amalgam of different people?

Christine Devane (: 12:25

It was loosely based off of myself because I can remember one of my first memories was when I was small and my mom used to take me to dance class and I did not want to join and she brought me every week and I would sit on the side and then one day I don't know why I randomly got up and I started dancing and I met my best friend. still friends. Our kids are friends. So we've been friends for a long time, but it was because I finally got up and joined the group. So

Mark (: 12:37

Thank

Mm-hmm.

Christine Devane (: 12:55

It was kind of a message that I had learned at a young age that sometimes it's okay to step outside of the comfort zone. It's not easy and, but it is rewarding in the end.

Mark (: 13:09

I think the word that comes up for me is risk, right? You take the risk and that's really hard for a lot of people to do, take risks, but that's how we grow. And what a wonderful message for the children through this book. mean, that it's something that I feel like we need to nurture children early on to take risks because, stepping outside of our comfort zone is the hardest thing probably. And...

Christine Devane (: 13:11

Yes.

Mark (: 13:28

But that's, like you said, you met your best friend. And how amazing is that? I was thinking about homeschooling because I thought when I was thinking about all the themes and the connections and the social aspect of it, those things could be lacking But as you just said, dancing, it made me think that.

those things might be missing in a homeschool

situation because you don't have the other students to be able to grow with and from, but then you have outside activities that you could have the same kind of experience with. What do you think about that?

Christine Devane (: 13:57

So I've actually done a few homeschooling podcasts, and there are people that homeschool for all different reasons. But I think that if you include kids in social settings outside of homeschool, then they're still going to be socialized and they're still going to understand

how to play and be in a group. I think it all depends on how the homeschool is working. When I was a teacher, there were children that were homeschooled, but they'd come to school for specialists. So they came to school for gym and art and music and things like that. So they were still around children and socializing in that aspect, but the rest of their day, they were being homeschooled. So I think it depends on the person and the situation.

Mark (: 14:42

okay, how forward thinking the parents are and how much they're willing to kind of push to get that socialization to exist.

that's cool. Yeah, I was just, because I saw that was on your website, you had something about homeschooling and it just made me think, wow, okay, that, kind of puts a little bit of a barrier up, right? When it comes to some of the themes that you're trying to get across here, because you're not being exposed, but little girl, she found the elephants on the beach. So I guess you can find socialization everywhere, right? Not just in school. It happens to be like the first big opportunity for sure, but there are other opportunities out there. Where do you find spontaneity?

Christine Devane (: 15:06

Yes.

Mark (: 15:16

because you can't find spontaneity if you know it's coming.

Christine Devane (: 15:19

Yeah. Well, with my children, there's a lot of spontaneity because they're very different. ⁓ this is actually a funny story. So my older son.

He is very much to extrovert. takes charge. My middle son, very quiet, goes along with everything. So we went to an amusement park and my older son was picking all the rides and my middle son would just kind of follow along. And then some rides he didn't want to go on. So we sat on the side and then all day he doesn't say he wants to go on anything. And he picks this one ride and it's the sky ride. And I'm thinking, wow, there's no height restrictions. There's nothing. We'll go on the sky ride.

I thought you would have been more strapped in. was literally a ski lift through the park and I'm on it with him who's four and my two year old and I have never had so much, I'm not an anxious person. I have never had so much anxiety in my entire life. So I'm holding my two year old. There's literally nothing but a bar and my four year old saying, this is wonderful. I can see everything. I love it. And

Mark (: 16:10

my god.

Right, ⁓

Christine Devane (: 16:29

The whole entire time I'm trying not to look down and I'm just thinking, okay, this is for my son. It's the only ride he wanted to go on. We're going to be happy. And I have never been so happy as when we got to the ground. And then of course he said, I want to go again? So thankfully I was with my friend too. I was talking about, met when I was little and her daughter and she went back on with him because I said, I cannot go on with my two year old because

Mark (: 16:44

Hahaha

Christine Devane (: 16:55

She doesn't understand and the whole time we're on the ride, she's just wiggling around and I'm just thinking, my goodness, how far is this drop? So that's just a story as being a mom. You never know where life is going to take you and what your kids are going to do. And you try to do things to please them. And I will not be going back on that ride again. And I've met other people that have said the same thing. ⁓ well, you know, there's no height restriction. We thought it was just,

Mark (: 16:59

Alright, sure. Oh my goodness.

you

Christine Devane (: 17:24

a sky ride, but it really depended on the belt and the bar and there really wasn't a lot to secure you in there. So that was a learning curve for me and I'm glad he got to go on his ride and he enjoyed it, but I was not going on a second time. So things like that, it's just day to day, you never know what's going to happen with them. And I just try to go with the flow, but thank goodness for my friend who took him on a second time because I felt so bad. This is

Mark (: 17:40

and I'm

door.

I can't find it.

Christine Devane (: 17:54

his favorite ride and he really wants to go on it because to him, since he is an introvert, he's looking at everything and taking it in. So he's saying, ⁓ the flowers are beautiful. I love seeing everything. Meanwhile, I am clenching my two year old and just praying for the ride to be over and hoping that no one falls out. So yeah, things like that. Yes, I was really trying to hold it in and then he said, take a picture.

Mark (: 17:55

You're right.

War.

Right? And he's like, Mommy, why are you crying? Why are you crying?

Christine Devane (: 18:22

I can't even bring myself to take the phone out. I'm just holding everyone in the ride. I'm just, no, we're not taking pictures. So thankfully he got to go on again with Jillian. Thank you, Jillian for taking him on the ride. I took the other ones on the go-kart ride or something like that. But yeah, it's just, think having kids, it's just every day is different and you never know really what's going to happen. And you try to do what's going to please everyone. And if it means going on.

Mark (: 18:25

One, two, three,

my goodness. Yeah. I'd push you.

Christine Devane (: 18:52

a crazy sky ride, then well, the funny thing is we, went back and he talked my mom into going on it. And my mom said the same thing. She said, ⁓ goodness, what was that ride? And she said, you know, I did it to make him happy. She said, but they should be more of a belt there to keep the kids in or at least have some sort of restriction on their height because, but yeah.

Mark (: 18:55

terrifying sky ride

Yeah.

⁓ Yeah, well,

it sounds like he's been pretty satiated with that ride as far as you're concerned. Yeah, done it, been there, done it.

Christine Devane (: 19:25

yeah, the funny thing is he'll talk about it to this day. He'll say, that

was my favorite ride and I got to go on it with you and grandma and I got to go on it with Jillian. to him.

Mark (: 19:37

Yeah. And you're like, ⁓ sorry.

They canceled the ride. Sorry. It doesn't exist anymore.

Christine Devane (: 19:40

Well, and the crazy thing

is he was afraid of the rides that were going, he thought fast in a circle on the ground. And I'm saying, how is this scarier than the ride where you're up dangling in the sky? I don't, I don't understand it, but if that's what makes you happy, then so be it.

Mark (: 19:47

Yeah.

each his own.

Christine Devane (: 20:01

So you never know.

Mark (: 20:01

So

yeah, well was gonna ask you how you have bring laughter and fun into your life and it sounds like, you know, it's there all the time. Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 20:09

yes, it's, we

just laugh at the situations. Now me and Jillian can laugh about it. When I was on the ride, I was not laughing And if my two year old was not with me, it wouldn't have been a challenge, but she doesn't get it.

Mark (: 20:17

I was gonna...

Sure.

lived and learned, fortunately, right? Yeah. I wanted to ask you if the book at all has changed you in your approach to being a mom, but it also occurs to me that you wrote the book, so you're kind of aware of it already, but has what's followed the publishing and the actual going out, I want to talk about you go to classrooms and I want to talk about what you do there. Like the post...

Christine Devane (: 20:25

Yes.

Mark (: 20:46

writing and the post release of the book and the things that have happened to you, what have you kind of learned through the process of meeting other people and maybe how have those things translated to being a mom?

Christine Devane (: 20:58

So after the book was published, I started doing a lot of classroom visits and I started going into the classrooms and I put my teacher hat on and I tried to make it fun for the kids. So I brought in beach towels, sunglasses, a beach ball. We do all sorts of activities just to make it fun. And then I know teachers like to have activities to go along with the book. So I came up with a few activities for the teachers to do like pretend that

you're at the beach with an elephant and what would you want to do with an elephant? So I tried to bring that to my classroom visits and it's been fun because I've been going to a lot of classrooms, but I've done some story times and sometimes I actually get to bring my kids with me and they love seeing it and they think it's funny that I'm on the back of the book and they'll say, this is mommy's book, her picture's on the back. So it's been fun taking them with me and getting to meet new people.

Mark (: 21:48

Right.

Christine Devane (: 21:54

But I think the biggest learning curve has been these podcasts, which I think are extremely fun, but it's funny to meet all different people. I mean, I've never really done podcasts before, and now I have a little area set up in my daughter's room, which my kids think is so funny. ⁓ But it's just, it's different, and it's nice to meet people without having to go anywhere and getting to talk about the book.

So there's been a few things that have definitely been a learning curve for me since the book has come out, but getting to share it with my kids has been really fun.

Mark (: 22:33

Okay, so that's created a different kind of connection with your kids that you might not have had if you hadn't written the book.

Christine Devane (: 22:39

Yeah, and my older son, he loves to help me prep for my activities. So he'll pack everything, he'll count out all the sunglasses, he'll get the papers ready. He's very organized. So he puts it all in a box and he'll say, okay, have fun today. And he's very good about that.

Mark (: 22:57

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, doing the podcast myself, I had never done, I just started it and I've been able to meet some amazing people now and just sitting here being able to talk to you like this is so cool. We don't have to travel and we get into each other's lives for a little bit and visit and it's just.

It's enriched my life tremendously. So I can relate to that aspect of it. so thanks for sharing your story and be willing to be on here. So it's all good. Yeah, it's great.

Christine Devane (: 23:25

Thanks for having me on.

Mark (: 23:29

You were a teacher, but you also had some time in Costa Rica. What was that about?

Christine Devane (: 23:35

So I volunteered there one summer and I taught English. So I went by myself with a group that works down there and you live down there for a couple of weeks. And I don't know any Spanish or anything like that, but it was a nice experience to go into different classrooms and see that kids all learn the same way. So they all like doing activities, having pictures, and it was...

nice to just be in a different spot.

Mark (: 24:06

⁓ How did that kind of inform how you approach things now, that experience, like coming back home? Were you a teacher at the time when you were there or you were? So how did that inform your teaching when you got back?

Christine Devane (: 24:15

Yes.

So it just made me more aware of things that I should be utilizing in my classroom, like hands-on experiences, pictures, things that will get kids to learn better. So that's kind of what I try to do when I go in and read the book. I don't want to just read the book because kids get read books all the time. I try to make it an experience where kids enjoy it, they learn from it. They'll go home and say, I read this fun book, but I also

got to do an activity around it. So I kind of try to bring that into my storytelling.

Mark (: 24:56

Yeah, the interactive component is really how the kids connect to it even more, the story can be wonderful, but to be able to actually be involved in it and connected to it is very, very powerful. I think Do you travel far or you kind of stay local when you travel to schools?

Christine Devane (: 24:58

Yes.

I've kind of stayed local. I did go to Florida and I taped a TV interview down there, but that's pretty much the furthest I've gone. Mostly all of the classroom visits have been in Massachusetts or New Hampshire, and it's mostly been people I know or friends or people that have seen me online. So it's kind of been, yeah, mostly in the area.

Mark (: 25:18

Okay.

you know, I was a teacher and I have teacher friends here on the island that I think you'd be amazing for their kindergarten classrooms. And so maybe we can talk about that another time. Maybe you'd be willing to make a little trip or something like that. Yeah, because I've got, I know a very enthusiastic kindergarten teacher who would love having you.

Christine Devane (: 25:47

Sure, I'd be willing to do that.

That would be fun. I haven't had anyone really approach me to do anything far away, so that's probably why I haven't done anything far away because it's been mostly, like I said, people I know or friends or people that have seen me online.

Mark (: 26:08

Right, well, now you met me and we're gonna expand your reach. Is the theme of bullying come up at all in your story or has it come up with kids and when you interact with them and discussions you've had?

Christine Devane (: 26:11

Okay.

Bullying hasn't really come up and it's not really in the book, but I know bullying obviously is an issue. I had to deal with it as a teacher. I do have kids in school that have to deal with it and unfortunately it happens and it's something that teachers, parents, children need to be aware of and need to realize how to handle it properly and

it's a tough thing, but I didn't really include it in my book because I didn't really want to focus on that. But obviously it's something that unfortunately a lot of people have to deal with.

Mark (: 26:51

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right. Well, it occurred to me because when you said you'd try to play both sides, where you want the child who's shy to be able to take that risk and step outside, but you also want the kids who are maybe more socially popular or whatever to reach across the aisle and try to bring that shy person, invite them into their lives.

when you talk about bullying, there's this disconnect, right? And so in a sense, maybe that could be applied there too, where you're asking kids to reach across and try to understand each other, basically, just in more general sense. And maybe that could help to reduce the bullying. So like to me, that's a way to kind of weave that in. I think it kind of fits because, yeah, you know, just the thought.

Christine Devane (: 27:28

Yes. I think that works.

Yeah, because the book

does focus a lot on kindness and also giving people a chance because sometimes we judge people before we know them, which sometimes that happens with bullying people bully kids before they even get to know them. the book, yeah, the book does focus on that because the little girl thinks the elephants are annoying. And then when she plays with them, she realizes, they're nice and they're fun. yeah, I guess you could.

Mark (: 27:54

Right, that's what I mean.

Christine Devane (: 28:07

say that that has to do with bullying and trying to get to know people before you judge them.

Mark (: 28:13

Mm-hmm, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's one of the themes, but it is a way to maybe touch that. in a way, it's a compliment to your book because that, because I think it's more, it can be even broader, is my thought about it. themes of acceptance, accepting one another for our differences. And that's a very common theme here because we're dealing with a...

Christine Devane (: 28:22

Thank you.

Mark (: 28:38

disabled people, there's acceptance and there's ⁓ inclusion and all these kind of themes that come up here on my show a lot. And I think that that touches what's going on in your book too, because being shy, it's also a matter of feeling excluded potentially if you're not able to step outside of yourself and make those connections.

So I think, you you touch upon, you probably don't even know maybe how far the reach of your book can be. You know, I'm sure you know enough, but I think maybe I just want to let you know that I feel like it touches a lot more themes too that are really important to us. And kindness being obviously the first

Christine Devane (: 29:06

Thank you.

Mark (: 29:18

thing. we need more kindness in this world. It's really, really negative right now. it's books like this that are...

Hopefully not getting banned because they're not, ⁓ you know, toeing the line. If kindness gets banned, we're really in trouble. Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 29:32

Yes, I would have to agree with that.

Mark (: 29:35

So talking about parents and how we can help parents understand and connect to their children, because I think that's something that's really important, is you've been able to accept, the girl was able to accept the elephants, you've been able to accept the differences in your students, and recognize that shyness was something that you need to be patient with and give them the time to be able to explore and open up the world to them and say, here's options, but don't feel any pressure on your time.

How do you get that kind of message across to parents? Do you think that's something that is part of your mission or do you feel that it's something that parents need more education in because there's a lot of demands and expectations of children. And I think sometimes we make children have to be, we adultify them a little bit too soon and we expect more from them than they're able to give us. Do you have any thoughts on that or do you have any messages for parents and how to approach that?

Christine Devane (: 30:31

Yeah, so I think that parents really need to be understanding that every child has their own personality. Like I said, I have three very different children and I think that parents just need to be patient with shy kids. And oftentimes people think there's something wrong with their child because they don't want to just jump into a group.

And a lot of people I think feel bad about it, but it's not something to feel bad about. That's their personality. And the best thing to do is find ways to let their personality shine and to help them. So my son that's very shy, he enjoys music. So I just signed him up for a music class and he really enjoys going and doing that. And he likes to talk about it, whereas other things he might not want to talk about. And I just think that parents need to...

put themselves in their children's shoes, they're small kids. I mean, my son's only four. So I try to think about, okay, well, if he doesn't want to join the other kids playing at my house, that's totally fine. He's not hurting anyone's feelings. I'll let him play by himself. And then there's certain situations where I try to encourage him. So if he's home at my house and there's other kids playing and he wants to be by himself, fine, I'll let him be. But last week he had show and tell at school and

I was asking him what he wanted to bring and he said, I don't want to bring anything. I don't want to bring anything. I don't want to bring anything. So I found something and I put it in his backpack and I told his teacher at drop off. said, you know, he really doesn't want to share at show and tell, but I put something in his backpack just in case. And she said, thank you for letting me know. So she said, ⁓ Nick, we're going to share it together. So she made him comfortable and she went up with him and allowed for him to share with

her because she knows that other kids might want to stand up in front of the class and say, this is so and so whatever, but he didn't want to do that. And she made him feel comfortable enough to go up and share. So there's certain situations where I allow him to be himself if he wants to be by himself, fine. And then there's other situations where I try to kind of coax him into participating. So for the show and tell if it was up to him, he would have

not brought anything and he would have just sat there. So I kind of encouraged him and then the teacher helped him out and he came home and told me, yeah, I shared, I showed this. I think it was a monster truck because we went to monster gym over the weekend, but he was very excited that he was able to share. But I think the thought in his head all morning was, I don't want to share. I don't want to get up in front of the class by myself. So thankfully his teacher was nice and helped him out. And I think

Mark (: 32:50

Right, right.

Christine Devane (: 33:18

As parents and teachers, we just need to be aware of children and what's going to make them comfortable and what's going to make them uncomfortable. Because I can remember, I didn't want to get up in front of the class and share either. And if my teacher went up and did it with me, maybe it would have made it a little easier. And for teachers out there to know that maybe sometimes we don't need to force all of these kids to present or go stand in front of the class by themselves. We can...

Mark (: 33:35

Mm-hmm.

Right. Right.

Christine Devane (: 33:46

go up there with

them and make them feel comfortable or let them bring a friend up to present something. So I think that there's different things that parents and teachers can do, but at the same time, just to have patience with these children and not to do something that's going to force them into a situation that's going to make them feel comfortable because it's going to push them more in the other direction. Because I think if I had picked something out and she had said,

Mark (: 34:09

side. Right.

Christine Devane (: 34:13

Nick, it's your turn. You have to stand up in front of the class by yourself, even though I know you don't want to." He would have been upset and he would have came home and said, I didn't like it. But because she said, it's okay, Nick, let's do it together. It made him comfortable and he was happy and he shared about them.

Mark (: 34:30

that's wonderful because it can really send the child in further inside themselves, wonderful message about parent teacher collaboration, Being in touch, knowing what's going on at home and you help to facilitate that by just saying, here's an option just in case. I mean, how wonderful. And I think that teachers have to be...

It's hard. Teachers have such a ridiculously crazy job. There's so much they're responsible for. And they have so many children. And to be able to attend to each individual child is really challenging. when you bring up giving the children options, this universal design of learning, it gives kids other options to be able to present their comprehension.

Christine Devane (: 34:52

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 35:08

of ideas and participation.

So it allows them maybe to be more comfortable in their shoes in doing something. So maybe they don't have to get up and actually present orally. Maybe they can show pictures or things like that. Or maybe you make the video at home of your child a show and tell. And then you could play that in the classroom, things like that. I think that, yeah, I think you touch upon that theme really wonderfully because you need to give kids options.

because everybody has something to offer, right? So we need to find that

Christine Devane (: 35:34

Yes. Yes.

Mark (: 35:37

way that they can get that out. do your kids, feel like they are in a place where they can trust that they can be themselves because you've given them that space? Do you sense that, that maybe, yeah. You want to talk about it a bit?

Christine Devane (: 35:51

Yes. Yes, I feel like

I try to let everyone have their own personality and my older son, he could talk all day. Sometimes I have to say, okay, let's let other people have a turn but

Mark (: 36:03

Okay.

Christine Devane (: 36:07

I try to let them have their own personalities and like I said, they're extremely different and there's different things I have to work on with them. So with my older son, I have the opposite problem where I have to work on him being quiet at school when he's not supposed to be talking. And then my middle son, it's okay, well, we want to be talking. And my daughter that's two, she just started preschool and she's showing signs of being shy too. So.

Mark (: 36:07

Right.

Christine Devane (: 36:34

It's funny, it's just very opposite. So when we're in the car and we're going places or we're coming home, I try to get them all to share. And my son that loves to share, I try to say, okay, well, let's have everybody else have a chance. Let's, if you have more to share, why don't we wait until after they share? Because he could talk for them all day. So it's just, it's funny because they're very opposite. And I tried to.

Mark (: 36:49

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Christine Devane (: 37:02

work in all of their personalities so everybody is heard, everybody gets their time to shine and everybody can kind of have their own personality without saying no don't do this or don't do that. I just try to get them to be themselves.

Mark (: 37:09

Yeah.

Right.

and you're.

Right, and your shy ones respond to that. When it's time for them to share, they're okay with sharing because of that.

Christine Devane (: 37:25

Yeah, they do better with prompting. Whereas my older son, you don't have to ask him anything. He'll just come over and he'll tell you everything that happened today. And my other two, you have to ask them questions and they will share, but you could say, ⁓ well, what was your favorite thing that you did today? So that's how I get more out of them because they'll get in the car and they won't say anything. So you just have to ask them questions.

Mark (: 37:29

Okay. Just go.

you

Right. Right.

Christine Devane (: 37:54

So it's funny, they're just, different. And I try to make it so everyone is heard and they all feel special.

Mark (: 37:54

Yeah.

and even noticing what kids are doing and just acknowledging it, saying, you know, I like what you're doing or that looks really fun, or things like that to give them that kind of sense of, oh, well, I've got something to offer here and it's actually being seen, you know, I'm being seen. I think that's a large part of it too is kids maybe don't feel seen for whatever reason, and maybe that's part of, I mean, there's a whole.

bunch of reasons plus just an innate natural disposition, to being shy. But there's a lot of things that can impact that, I'm sure. did you feel that you were just naturally shy? Was there anything as a child that made you feel like you had to go inwards and were afraid to go out? Was there any experiences that you had or was it just kind of like who you naturally were?

Christine Devane (: 38:44

No, I think it was just who I naturally was. When I was younger, I was just pretty quiet and pretty clingy to my mom and my daughter is showing signs of the same thing. She just started school. She does not love going to school. We're working on that. But yeah, I think that I was like her and my middle son and I just tended to like to be

Mark (: 38:47

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 39:09

by myself and if I was talking to other people, was more people that I was comfortable with. So my friend that I'm still friends with, I met at a very young age and we became friends and I was very comfortable around her. So she was somebody that I would open up to and spend a lot of time with, whereas newer people kind of made me more nervous because I had interacted with them yet and I see that with my younger too.

Mark (: 39:37

But it wasn't like a social anxiety for you, was just like, you were just uncomfortable. Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 39:42

No, it was just who I was. I was just

shy and I see that with my own kids. I don't think they have social anxiety that I see. I just see that they're quiet and they like to observe things more than jumping in, which is what the book shows. The little girl observes the elephants before she joined the group. Whereas some children that are extroverts just jumped in and

Mark (: 39:53

quiet, yeah.

Right.

Christine Devane (: 40:08

are able to do that. I'm not able to do that. Still as an adult, I don't just jump into situations where I think some kids do. So it's everyone's personality is just different.

Mark (: 40:17

Right.

And there's no judgment too, and that's what's great about the book too, is there's no judgment saying that there's something wrong with you because you're shy and you need to be this way. It's wonderful that you can get to that place, but you be who you are, I think that's really an important message. We always want kids to know that it's okay and safe to be who they are.

When you talk about going to groups, do you do libraries? Because I'm thinking, it's a way to get parents involved. doing library visits where you read your book and there's moms and dads and their children so you can kind of get that message directly to the parents too?

Christine Devane (: 40:53

have done library visits. I've done a few library visits. And I talk about libraries a lot on the podcast, because I love the library. And I think more parents should be bringing their kids to the library, because it's a great place for kids to pick out all different books. And then there's also a lot of activities at the library, we go to our library lot, because they have a lot of good enrichment programs that they enjoy. And it really brings the books to life.

⁓ For example, we went to a shark week party and they had all sorts of shark books and then they had shark games and they made puppets and shark snacks. So they enjoyed it and the best thing is library free. So I think it's something that parents sometimes overlook because everybody's busy with sports, birthday parties, going to amusement parks. Then I think sometimes people forget that the library is there and it's a great resource.

Mark (: 41:49

Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 41:51

Also, it gets kids involved in picking out their books. I let my kids pick whatever books they want to pick. It's usually a lot of truck books, but sometimes they pick books that I wouldn't have picked for them, which is nice because then I don't have to buy it. ⁓ My son, my older son got really interested in the Titanic and he started getting books from the library on the Titanic and I never would have bought him a book on the Titanic. I don't know why he got into it. He, yeah, he just saw it one day and

Mark (: 42:17

Right, you wouldn't think, right?

Christine Devane (: 42:21

He fills up the bag, they take care of the books. It also teaches them responsibility because they have to keep the books together and then we bring them back to the library. But it's a place that my kids really enjoy going and I think more parents should be bringing their kids there even if you go once a month. I mean, it's just a nice place to take kids that gets them to enjoy reading and oftentimes they have

programs that the kids enjoy going to.

Mark (: 42:53

And they also get to see like your son, books and themes that they might not have been exposed to otherwise. So it's a chance to really find what your interests are. And that helps the parents too, because it gives them more ideas about how to interact with their own kids and on, things that they can get their kids excited about and reward them all this type of different things. That's really cool. and I just think it's a great place for you as an author to be able to reach your, your message and reach parents to be able to

you know, help their kids even more. You have activities on your website. Can you talk about those a little bit? Because we've talked about activities a lot. I'm just curious what people could find on your website.

Christine Devane (: 43:30

So I had some of the pages of the book turned into coloring pages. So those are on the website. So you can just go and download them. And then I have that writing activity on the website that says, like if I was at

the beach with an elephant, would, and kids can draw a picture and then write about what they would do at the beach with an elephant. And then in a few weeks I will have stuffed animals too. I had somebody design the elephant. Yeah. So since I have so many lucky elephants, I wanted to make lucky elephants. So they should be available by Thanksgiving, hopefully.

Mark (: 43:57

Cool.

Nice.

That'll be on your website. can purchase it through there. Yeah, and they can purchase your book on your website as well too, I would imagine, right?

Christine Devane (: 44:10

Thanks.

Yeah, so it's on

my website, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and then Archway.

Mark (: 44:17

Amazon.

that's awesome. Do you find that teachers are asking you to come back to the classroom to follow up at all? Do the kids get that so excited that people are inviting you back?

Christine Devane (: 44:29

Yes, a lot of teachers have invited me back. So it's nice to be able to go into a classroom and then come back and read the book and do the activities with them.

Mark (: 44:32

Yeah.

You weren't a reading teacher. You were a general ed teacher. Okay. But reading was just something that you were drawn to and that you focused on.

Christine Devane (: 44:44

It was generalized.

Yes.

Mark (: 44:51

We talked a lot about a lot of different themes. I want to make sure that you got across your message about your book and talked enough about your book, because I don't want to, you we talked around your book a lot, but the actual story itself you highlighted. Is there anything about the book that you want to talk about that we might not have mentioned?

Christine Devane (: 45:07

I think that we got most of the important themes out there. It's just teaching kindness, just teaching kids that everyone's different and some kids like to join a group, some kids take a little while to warm up and just having patience with people in general.

not judging people before we know them. So there's all different themes, but I think that we touched upon all of them.

Mark (: 45:33

Okay, good. Yeah, I just want people to walk away with the message that you want to impress upon people. I think that it's a great, start for parents to be able to pick up this book and bring their kids to a place where they can start to maybe talk about what they're feeling too. I think getting kids to talk about what's happening inside them is...

it's critical. You we need to have the, give them the confidence to be able to do that. And you find your book has that availability with it.

Christine Devane (: 45:58

Yeah, so actually I was on a podcast a few weeks ago and the man told me that his granddaughter identified with the book because she had started camp and I guess she was a little shy and it took her a little while before she started playing with the other kids and then when she started playing with the other kids she had fun. So she said, ⁓

Mark (: 46:17

Mm-hmm.

Christine Devane (: 46:19

I learned about that in the book and so she identified with the book that way. Yeah.

Mark (: 46:24

that's great. Yeah,

because as a teacher too, a former teacher, I love the idea of acting out the stories of the kids because that really, I felt it helped to internalize. So what you're doing with that, and I think that's something that I'm sure a lot of teachers do, but I feel like that's a way for kids to relate to a story even more because they can actually live out the characters, which is really cool. Do you have kids reenact the story at all?

Christine Devane (: 46:45

Yeah.

Sometimes they do. And there was one classroom visit I went to where the little girl knew I was coming and she loved elephants. So she wore her elephant shirt and she was very excited to show me. It was cute. As soon as I got there, she said, look at my shirt. I love elephants. So it's been fun because everybody's taken different things away from the book. And when I read the book, like I said, people share all different experiences.

I wanted it to be at a place too that kids could identify with. So most kids have been to the beach. So a lot of kids are able to share their thoughts and opinions on the beach before we even read the book. And then we discuss their favorite animals. So we have a lot of good discussions before we read the book and then after the book too.

Mark (: 47:22

Right.

Cool.

Yeah, yeah, I thought you were gonna say just come out dressed as an elephant.

Christine Devane (: 47:39

no. It was funny

though, there was one class that I went to and we were talking about favorite animals and every kid named a bird. Somebody said a flamingo, somebody said a woodpecker, and then the teacher told me they were learning about birds because I said that was very, that was odd that they all, their favorite animal was a bird and it was very different types of birds. And she said, we're doing a unit on birds. So it's just, it's funny seeing what...

Mark (: 47:48

Really.

Yeah.

You

Christine Devane (: 48:05

the kids are learning and how they're expressing themselves and what they want to share.

Mark (: 48:07

Yeah, yeah.

That's so cool. So ultimately, how has this experience changed you as a person?

Christine Devane (: 48:11

We can.

⁓ it's been a lot of fun. It's been a learning curve because obviously you publish the book and then afterwards there's a lot of marketing to get the book out there. So it's been a lot of me emailing people at night, emailing bookstores, emailing libraries. So it's been a little bit of a learning curve, but I've enjoyed it and it's been a lot of fun. And now the podcasts I think are much easier to do because in the beginning I was

pretty nervous to do them. yeah, I think it's changed me as a writer and as an author and how this whole process works.

Mark (: 48:54

Well, I hope this has been a good experience because I really enjoyed speaking with you and learning about what you're doing. And I'm excited that people can learn about your book now. And I definitely want to connect you with some teachers down on this end of the coast here.

Christine Devane (: 49:11

sure and thank you so much for having me on it's been a lot of fun.

Mark (: 49:15

gosh, I love, you know, for me talking about kindness and inclusion and all that stuff, that's right up my alley. So this is I was really excited to get to speak to you today. And I really appreciate that your team reached out. And it's such a pleasure. And there's always room for coming back if you ever want. And do you have another plan for another book at all?

Christine Devane (: 49:36

So I actually have two books in the works and I don't know, we'll see which one comes out first because one's with my same publisher and one's with a different publisher. my, think this book is going to be first. So it's called Letters and Sounds with Lola and Sophie. So Sophie's my dog. She's a rescue dog. She is very good, but sometimes she gets herself into trouble. And then Lola is a dog that I...

Mark (: 49:41

Okay.

Christine Devane (: 50:01

owned and she sadly passed away but she was a four pound Chihuahua, very dainty, loved all her clothes. So it's an alphabet book showing the two dogs how sometimes they're the same, they both like going for walks, they both like tubs, sometimes they're different. Lola's very dainty and Sophie's digging in the dirt and I got the idea actually from my own kids because as a parent I realized how important alphabet books were because when I was teaching

second grade, we didn't really read a lot of alphabet books, but since my kids are smaller, they really enjoy alphabet books since they're learning the alphabet. So I wanted to do an alphabet book, not about trucks or airplanes because we have a lot of those. So that's why I thought the story about the dogs would be funny and it would be nice to show the two different personalities of the dogs. So that book, they're working on the illustrations. Hopefully that's out.

right after Thanksgiving, so the end of November. Yeah, they're trying to move it along pretty quickly. I already have the character sketches. So there's that book. And then there's another book that's totally different topic, but it's on the topic of grief because when I was teaching, I found that as a teacher, we would just receive an email and say, so-and-so's grandmother died and we didn't bring it up. We didn't talk to kids. And I really felt that that was

Mark (: 51:01

my goodness, soon. that's wonderful.

Christine Devane (: 51:27

doing them a disservice. So I wrote a book, it's loosely based around my grandfather. We were very close. He didn't pass away when I was little, but it shows the girl, the grandfather and her doll. And they do all these things together and then he passes away. And then as a way to remember him, she does all the things with her doll and then she names the doll after him. So it shows kids that we can be sad, but we can also

Mark (: 51:30

I agree.

Christine Devane (: 51:55

remember people and honor people after they've passed away and we can think about them and have good memories. So I thought that that was something else that was missing in school because like I said, there was just an email and then no real follow up with students. And a lot of kids experience grief being a pet, grandparent, sometimes a parent.

Mark (: 51:59

Yeah.

And that was it. Right.

Sure.

Christine Devane (: 52:20

And I think that it's important to be able to connect with them and let them feel seen, not necessarily with calling them out and saying, I heard your grandmother died because we don't want to do that. We don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. But I feel as though reading a book makes them feel seen, helps them a little bit and lets them know that you care about them.

Mark (: 52:34

All

Yeah, no, it's beautiful. And I love the device of the doll, you know, being able to transfer through the doll, the same experiences. It's, it's like hands on. It's right there. It's tangible. It's amazing. You come up with some great ideas. love it. Well, it's been such. Yeah.

Christine Devane (: 52:54

you. Thank you. Thank you. They're all just ideas of

things that have happened in my own life. So

Mark (: 53:04

well, as a writer, you write from your own experiences. right? From what I understand, anyway. I wrote a story about rainbows, and I'm not a rainbow, so I guess that's not always the case. yeah, I like rainbows. Rainbows are beautiful. Well, this has been such a pleasure. You're an awesome human being, and I love the themes that you focus on in your life and the way you approach your children and your...

Christine Devane (: 53:07

Yes.

you

We like rainbows though.

Thank you.

Mark (: 53:27

your students when you were a teacher. These are lessons that I think that are just so paramount for teachers to pick up on and to emulate. So thank you for that.

Christine Devane (: 53:37

Well, thank you so much for having me on and letting me speak and get my message out there.

Mark (: 53:43

Yeah, my pleasure. Anything I can do in the future to help promote, let me know and I'd love to have you come back when your next books are published. We can talk more about them.

Christine Devane (: 53:52

Sure, sounds good. I'd love to be back on.

Mark (: 53:55

Okay, wonderful. All right, well I'll be in touch with you for sure to get you down here on the island spreading the word. Okay, well thank you so much and have a wonderful day.

Christine Devane (: 54:00

Yeah. Sounds good.

Thank you, you too.