Gun Violence Prevention: Interview with Janet Goldstein; MOMS DEMAND ACTION

Mark (: 00:00

Hi. Good. How are you? I put it on mute because I didn't know what you were coming on and I didn't just whatever. ⁓

Janet Goldstein (: 00:00

Excellent. Hi, how are you? I'm good.

I just want to thank

you again for the other day. That was a wonderful opportunity, a wonderful experience, and we're really looking forward to working with Katri with you and on something in November.

Mark (: 00:22

my gosh, you're so welcome. it was just such a, it really was just a joy for me to be able to find a way to do something for the cause. You know, I've been wanting to get involved with the movement for a long time. And I mean, what got me...

Janet Goldstein (: 00:34

It also energized

people. wasn't just about the music when the day everything was wonderful, but it energized and my volunteers went back and told other people about it. And I think that that is such a great testament to what you built and what you did.

Mark (: 00:43

Really.

my goodness, that's wonderful. That's so good to hear. I'm so excited about the possibilities for the future. The fact that every town was represented there and, looked at it as something important to give attention to and now wants to build off of it. I couldn't be happier. mean, to me, that was, you know, was just like, here's an opportunity, let's take it. But the idea that it could be something we can build off of and make more of is fantastic. ⁓

Janet Goldstein (: 01:10

Yeah, really terrific.

Mark (: 01:12

Yeah, the energy was amazing.

Janet Goldstein (: 01:14

It

was wonderful. Yeah, it truly was. And for our first time event, and I've been to many first time events, it really was a success. I think you reach one person, it's a success. If one more person is educated on gun violence, think So thank you.

Mark (: 01:19

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah, no, I

agree. agree. My pleasure. And thank you for being here today because this has been something I've been wanting to do for a long time is be able to talk to somebody involved in the movement. And it hasn't been easy to, make happen. and you and I have been trading dates. It's been a long time coming. so I'm so happy to have you here today and you have so much to share and to educate the public on. And, that's what I, that's what this is about. You know, this is a tool to be able to.

Janet Goldstein (: 01:43

Yes.

Mark (: 01:55

educate people and really just have them understand what the movement's about specifically as opposed to the idea of wanting to take people's guns away. It's not about that. that's why I want to have you here to represent all of that and talk about what's happening in government today with the laws and everything. But before we start, could you give us a little bit of background about yourself and prior to and then what you're doing with moms? Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 02:19

Absolutely. So

I joined moms about six years ago. Prior to that, I was a school teacher, a mom. And the first mass shooting that I really recall having had an impact on me was Columbine. And I think I was home on bed rest with my first pregnancy. And I just remember seeing high schoolers climbing out of windows. it was just...

I never had experienced as a mom or as a teacher seeing anything like that and it had such an impact on me. I knew that at some point one day I was going to do something and I didn't know what it was at that time. And shortly after that I started with reaching out to elected officials or people running, candidates that were running that I thought aligned with my same feelings about gun violence. And I got involved with writing postcards and at one point I must have written postcards for an organization

o join Mom's Demand. I texted: 64433

Shari from Rockland County, but I remained as local group lead for Long Island because I love the boots on the ground and doing the kinds of events that we did with you and with others and as chapter lead I wouldn't necessarily be doing those things and I needed to do both so my agreement was I could stay local group lead for Long Island as well as a New York State.

Mark (: 03:56

That's so wonderful they could accommodate that for you, Yeah, because I know it's like when I was a teacher and first of all, congratulations on the promotion. It's incredible. yeah, all right, right. Double zero. And knowing you, you're just an incredible leader. And so I'm so happy to know you and to be able to volunteer, under the umbrella of your of your leadership. And I'm excited to do more. And I remember as a teacher, you know, when people would be like, well, once you go into

Janet Goldstein (: 04:03

Thank you. Double the pay. Volunteer work.

Thank you.

Mark (: 04:23

I was like, no, I don't want to be in administration. want to be working with the kids, know, so let's boots on the ground, same idea. It's like you want to be in the action, I mean, it's nice to have influence over policy and things like that. That's wonderful. And so you get to do both. So.

Janet Goldstein (: 04:29

exactly the same.

Yeah, which

is why I appreciate the role so much, because I do have a say in at the state level what goes on and how we bring that back down to our volunteers. And as you said about teaching, sitting in a classroom, and I'm sure you experienced this as well, when there were active shooter drills, which only happened later on in my career, seeing the faces of these little kids and the trauma that that brought was another reason that kind of pushed me into this lane.

Mark (: 04:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and

I agree. I mean that's really what got me going too because being a teacher and having experiences lockdowns That was that was my motivation too. this is insane and we're not protected and this whole rationale For keeping guns around and keeping automatic weapons and we'll talk all about that stuff Just so beyond me, and so I feel like If we have something to say then we need to be out there saying it and educating people,

Janet Goldstein (: 05:16

Sure.

Yeah, absolutely,

Mark (: 05:24

And so a lot of my podcasts, I have general questions and I kind of let the context kind of take us where it's gonna go naturally, but there are specific things that I want to talk about and ask today. So I actually am going to make sure that I read certain questions to you because they're a little fuller and I want to be specific about them and give you an opportunity to respond. ⁓ And so what I want to start off with is,

Janet Goldstein (: 05:37

Perfect.

Thank you.

Mark (: 05:47

I'm just going to read this. Gun ownership remains one of the most politically divisive issues. 79 % of Republicans say it increases safety, while 78 % of Democrats say it reduces safety. How do you react to this? And what's America's fascination with guns about, you think?

Janet Goldstein (: 06:02

Well, the first part of your question, all I need to say is you've all be Texas. There were hundreds of police officers armed and that didn't stop the gunman from shooting and killing 19 children and two teachers. Loan gunman, hundreds of police officers. So if more guns kept us safe, we'd be the safest country in the world. And we are not. We are by far.

most impacted by gun violence. there's statistics, people can go to everytownresearch.org and look at the statistics and there's statistics coming from other platforms as well that guns don't keep us safer. But there is one thing I'd like to add to that gun ownership and it's responsible gun ownership because the guns are the issue, but responsible gun ownership is to me,

Here in our organization, we're not pro-gun or anti-gun. We're pro-responsible gun ownership and common sense legislation. So it means not only do we have to have responsible gun ownership, but the implementation of gun legislation from state to state is very, important. Every town is ranked off 50 states. Idaho ranks 50th, meaning they have the weakest gun laws and they also have the largest amount of gun violence.

California is the gold standard. New York ranks, I believe, fourth. And we're working in gun sense legislation as well as gun violence. And you can see the parameters and the comparisons between both of them. And I think that once people understand that we're not here to reduce gun ownership, we're here to have responsible gun ownership, and we're here to promote common sense legislation.

I think that it's going just to continue.

Mark (: 07:36

Yeah, I think the semantics are really, really important to get out there, to understand what the message is and not confuse it because it's automatically, it seems like that's where pro-gun people go. They think you want to take the guns away and that's not at all what they're saying.

Janet Goldstein (: 07:48

And I think that's the fascination

with guns in our country.

Mark (: 07:53

Yeah, I mean, there's more guns than people in this country, right? So there's something to be said about that. And the fact that our gun laws have changed, the automatic weapon. Let's get down to that.

Janet Goldstein (: 07:56

Yep.

Okay.

Mark (: 08:05

the federal ban on assault weapons affected crime and it reduced mass killing. So can you talk about that law back in the 1990s when it happened, that assault ban?

Janet Goldstein (: 08:19

we did have the assault ban, but it expired in 2008, I believe, under the Bush administration, and was never picked up again. And we saw a decrease in gun violence when that ban was in effect. And once the ban expired and was not picked up again, gun violence increased.

It's one of the things that we work on from our end, our legislative end in our organization. I don't know that it's going to be successful in the next three years, but it's something that we continue to work towards because possibly the military needs that, but there really is no other time in our society where anyone needs an assault rifle.

Mark (: 08:46

Yeah. Right.

Mm-hmm.

right now, as you said, in the next three years, it's gonna be very difficult. The administration is definitely pro-Second Amendment, and they take that to an extreme. And so there are people that are able to just carry, and a lot of states have the carry laws, What do you think?

keeps people motivated to keep fighting right now. I what are the things that you can do and things like moms and organizations do to continue to fight that fight?

Janet Goldstein (: 09:27

Well, unfortunately, what motivates people the most is more gun violence. It motivates them to stand up and speak out against senseless gun violence. You know, right now there's a bill on the floor in Congress that is going to be looked at and passed through the Judiciary Committee. It's called H.R. 38 and it's Concealed Carry Mandate, which means that our laws in our state are only as strong as the weakest state. In other words, if someone is coming from, let's say, Nevada,

and they have permitless concealed carry, which means you don't need a permit to conceal carry. If they come to New York, which does have a permit needed to conceal carry, they're allowed to come here legally without a permit and carry their weapon without a permit. So this reciprocity of the state that you're coming from, it has a number of co-sponsors.

That's one of the things that moms demand and every town has been working very, hard to convince our lawmakers who are maybe on the fence about it or maybe in a district where people are outspoken against ⁓ concealed carry mandate can speak to their legislators. We met with the offices of two of our legislators in CD1 and CD2, which is out in Suffolk County, hoping to convince them not to support this bill.

Mark (: 10:30

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 10:44

If it passes, then that means anyone from any state can come into New York who has pretty stringent, common sense gun laws and their laws follow them into our state. And they cannot be punished for doing anything that was legal in their state. So we're trying to look at this at a federal level. So no matter whatever laws our state has passed, they literally mean nothing if somebody comes in. So moms is, we have had phone

Mark (: 10:54

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 11:09

pushing phone calls to our legislators, constituents calling the legislators. We've pushed meeting with our legislators. We've pushed other platforms, other video platforms to convince our lawmakers, even calling them out on social platforms to remind them of the value and importance of voting against this dangerous bill.

Mark (: 11:29

I know that the gun lobby is very big, but it seems just you're coming down to common sense, right? So when we see the facts that crime and murders and mass shootings were down.

Why is that not resonating? I mean, it seems like that should be something that is so clear, and to me it is anyway. Why do you think it doesn't resonate with politicians or it does resonate and they still don't pull the switch on it?

Janet Goldstein (: 11:54

I think, you know, if you recall, the biggest gun sense legislation was passed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act under the previous administration. And it passed by both sides of the aisle. I think sometimes some legislators are concerned with their base. They're concerned with their supporters, both financially and voter-wise.

Mark (: 12:16

Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 12:16

And

I think that they are afraid to take a stand and they're afraid that they will turn some of their constituents away from them. And they're more concerned about that than they are about their entire constituency. And so I think, you know, day one of this new administration, many of the advances that were able to be overturned were overturned and put it on the hands of the state level.

And that's why New York State has worked very hard to advocate for gunsense legislation ⁓ in wake of that.

Mark (: 12:44

Right,

right. Yeah, it's a kind of thing where, I don't know if it's a need for power and position over lives and money over lives. And I just don't understand why they can't go to their people and explain literally what it means as opposed to the interpretations. These things are so misunderstood, I think.

Janet Goldstein (: 12:56

and money.

And that is one of the things that we do in Moms to Med Action as well. We try to educate our communities. And we try to go into communities that are disproportionately impacted by gun violence, but we also have to get into communities that don't see things the way we see things and have those conversations that are vital so that people do understand. When we table and I'm wearing my mom's shirt and someone comes up to me and says, you're trying to take my guns away. You know, I have second amendment rights. I have conversations with them, but it's not about taking guns away. It's about, you know, if someone is a gun owner,

Sometimes that's our best salesperson if they're a responsible gun owner. So the message is not clear to certain constituents. And so that's important for the elected officials to get that information out, but also for us too. And when our elected officials are catering to higher powers, it doesn't necessarily always happen.

Mark (: 13:44

Right. Right.

Mm-hmm. So that kind of answers my question about, you know, how do you frame the argument and how do you make the argument more universally known? And in a sense, basically, you're here as moms to do the politician's job for them and to educate, right? Right.

Janet Goldstein (: 14:15

Right, right. And we do that,

you know, by also by spreading those messages at our tabling events. Anytime someone will have us, we reach out to representatives at the state level and local level on both sides of the aisle and ask that we can table at their events so that we have an opportunity to have those conversations. And it might be more one-to-one, but eventually that person might speak to somebody else. And that's how our message gets out there.

Mark (: 14:37

How do you think the Second Amendment's been distorted to keep those in favor of wanting more guns out there and being afraid that their guns are going to be taken away from them and not, and conflating it with, know, want, you're going to take my guns away from me, but I need to fight for my guns. How is the Second Amendment being misinterpreted?

Janet Goldstein (: 14:56

So

many gun activists emphasize that phrase, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. And they don't read the rest of the Second Amendment. They just see that and they argue that it guarantees a broader individual the right to own firearms for any purpose, including self-defense. But they tend to downplay the clause that refers to a regulated militia, which would be...

our armed forces, our police officers, our law enforcement. And I think that too many times they limit it to what they see and they don't really fully understand that it's not about taking guns away and it's not about a constitutional right. It's about responsible gun ownership. And I am sure that any gun activist or gun owner for that matter wants to keep their children safe.

Mark (: 15:42

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 15:43

easy

access to firearms does not keep their children safe. So legislation regarding access to firearms, secure storage, are just as important as the Second Amendment or possibly even more.

Mark (: 15:55

Right, and that's really what your focus is on. Correct, right.

Janet Goldstein (: 15:57

Correct. And it's about

the messaging about the Second Amendment because a lot of times people just hear, you're here to take our guns away and Moms Demand is not a pro or anti-gun organization at all.

Mark (: 16:08

Right.

Yeah. And that's where it's just disappointing that the politicians don't go beyond that first phrase, you know, to explain. No, it's not that, but it's used, obviously, it's used to the benefit, right? As the argument. Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 16:20

Right, well people have catchphrases and they use what works

for them to promote their argument. But I cannot tell you how many times that I've engaged in conversation with people because I think that's important regarding, know, accusing me of taking their guns away. when they have that conversation with me, they realize they'll say, you're not taking my gun away. And I said, absolutely not. We're just advocating for responsible gun ownership and.

common sense legislation. And that is one of the things that helps move the needle a bit in that conversation.

Mark (: 16:49

the needle. Yeah.

And I think, too, talking about how other countries handle it, know, countries that have gun control, laws in place that have, little to no mass killings. think those are great examples to be able to encourage people to understand, OK, well, that's a reality and we can do the same thing and we can still have our guns. Why does that not resonate? Why is that argument not being pushed enough?

Janet Goldstein (: 17:15

because it doesn't benefit gun manufacturers. It doesn't benefit gun enthusiast organizations that support political candidates. And it takes away power from certain people. And I think, you know, when we start using words like gun control, that raises the ire of gun owners, because they think we're trying to control them and...

Mark (: 17:29

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 17:40

That's the furthest thing from what we are trying to do. We're just trying to have gun sense legislation that prevents the easy access that causes death by suicide, that causes a child playing with a gun or showing a friend a gun or bringing a gun to school, or somebody with mental health issues, temporary or diagnosable, from getting their hands on a gun.

Mark (: 18:01

Yeah, it's really interesting. mean, just to...

discussed and probably beyond what we can talk about just America's fascination with guns compared to other countries you know it's just we have more guns than people as we said and and we have more mass shootings than any other country I mean there's just so much out there so much evidence to say look we need to like take a look at this but it just doesn't seem to resonate America loves their guns and I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that but I'm just one person I know beyond me there's many more people that like

the idea of guns.

Janet Goldstein (: 18:34

Yes,

or just like the idea of not being told what they can and cannot have. But, you know, we're told you cannot drive a car without a license, you know, it's similar kind of a thing. There has to be rules regulating certain things that could eventually hurt others. And so that's really just the gist of the whole thing. And there are other organizations similar to mine that are just trying to get that message out there that it's about common sense.

Mark (: 18:38

Mm.

Right.

Yeah, we're very good in this country of picking and choosing what it is that we want to put laws to like driving, right? So yeah, I know that's that's baffling.

Janet Goldstein (: 19:06

Exactly, exactly.

But that's why we advocate for guns and legislation

both in Albany and in DC. And that's why one of the pushes when I became the local group lead for Long Island as well as the New York state chapter lead, I felt it was imperative that we not only meet with one side of the aisle that is more aligned with our way of thinking, but that we meet with members on both sides of the aisle. And many times, as I'm sure you've witnessed, members of both sides of the aisle said, well, that's just common sense. You know, when we sit and we have a conversation with them and we...

Mark (: 19:29

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 19:38

frame it in a way that they can then go back to their constituents and frame it that same way and maybe help them to understand.

Mark (: 19:44

Yeah, that was fascinating to be part of that up in Albany to Canvas legislators with you back in May or April, whatever it was we went, April. And, you know, to sit and listen to the response of some of these people that are trying to hedge while you're talking and you just have this sense of those people just not.

Janet Goldstein (: 19:50

April.

Mark (: 20:02

buying it, you know, and already having made their decision, but then, but just catering to you while you speak for a few minutes, you know, in your presentation. And it's a little bit frustrating and defeating. mean, was really fascinating to kind of sit back and watch you professionals, you know, address this to the legislators and just sit back and learn as a first timer. But you could see, you can see how it works. And it's just disappointing. I even followed,

know I mentioned to you that I had followed up with one of the legislators who was possibly open and never heard back from that person and that's not a surprise I guess. ⁓

Janet Goldstein (: 20:37

What's very important with that though then

is to follow up again, but also follow through by educating yourself on how they actually voted. Because sometimes they will vote in favor of what we advocated for. Sometimes they won't. Sometimes they don't want to give the impression that they are being led by an organization, that they're going to make their own decisions. So a lot of times that's their response at a meeting. ⁓ non-response, exactly.

Mark (: 20:40

Mm-hmm.

Interesting.

Okay. Or non-response, right?

Or non-response, right? Yeah. Okay, I'm going to read another, I'm just gonna pick one of these questions.

. And in: 2023

Janet Goldstein (: 21:31

Yeah, ⁓ we have known, yeah,

every time research has shown us as has other research that communities of color are disproportionately impacted by gun violence. Also, there are so many other factors that come into this gun violence pigeonhole into certain areas. There's socioeconomic status, easy access to guns, poor mental health, substance abuse. There's so many cultural differences. And so what we feel is important is identifying those

root causes and those systemic causes of gun violence and doing what we can to address them. Oftentimes those things are not addressed and those communities are just looked over. And so in Moms Demand Action, what we do is we make sure that we are in those communities, then we speak with the community members. So that's why, as I said to you before, wherever we can table, wherever we can do a presentation, I focus on those communities that need us most. I think it's important, number one, to reach out to those communities, be in those communities.

Mark (: 22:20

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 22:24

not to speak, to listen to members of those communities and to have our organization reflect those communities. So in other words, when we're doing a presentation, I want the presenters to reflect the community that we're in. I was asked to do a teen talk a couple of weeks ago in a community disproportionately impacted by gun violence. And I had a beautiful slide presentation prepared. And when I looked into the faces of these 15 year old young black men and I started my little

Mark (: 22:34

Right. ⁓

Janet Goldstein (: 22:50

cute little slide presentation, it didn't work for me. So I stopped my slide presentation and I said, how have you been impacted by gun violence? And five out of the 10 or 12 teens that were there, were impacted by gun violence. I said, so this is not about me talking, this is about me listening. Talk to me. And one boy said, 15 years old, said, well I have to have a gun because I was already shot once. And I thought, you know, I'm coming from a very different upbringing, very different background, and I don't.

Mark (: 22:51

Yeah. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 23:17

truly understand that mentality, that upbringing. And I said to myself, I have to hear him out. And I sat down next him, instead of standing behind the podium right behind my slide deck, I sat down next to him and one young teen female said to him, you have to be more respectful. She's here to help you. I said, he's being respectful. He's talking to me about what is going on. So I said to all the young teens to come over and sit together.

And I listened and I heard about some of the things that were happening. One of the boys we already knew, he was the son of a survivor of gun violence. He was the sibling of a victim of gun violence. And he said to me, Janet, he said, I want to be involved in Students Demand Action. And I think I can get my friend over there involved as well. So do I make a difference? Did it make a difference? I don't know, but at least this child, this teenager, to me, he's still a child at 15, but this teenager had a chance to speak.

Mark (: 24:07

Yeah, I know,

Janet Goldstein (: 24:11

and to be heard. And that to me is one of the ways that we break through to some of these communities impacted by gun violence.

Mark (: 24:19

Absolutely, and I think you did make a difference. I mean you gave them the opportunity and you switched on a dime when you recognize That this was just not right, you know, there was it was unequal in that moment because you are not living their world it's a completely different existence. And so we need to be educated too by those people that are really affected by this and My concern is the way things are now with people who are from low-income communities and black and Latino

Janet Goldstein (: 24:28

Right.

Mark (: 24:48

knows, you know, I feel like things are only going to get worse for them. And, we see it in the streets, and it's just really, really scary stuff and heartbreaking. What do you see things? I mean, you have a projection for where do see things going in the in coming years here, you know?

Janet Goldstein (: 24:51

Yes.

Yeah, so

in the coming specifically, the coming two or three years, two and a half years, three years, I've lost count. But in the coming three years, I think our vital support is with just basics. So we do a school supplies drive to make sure these children are equipped academically to be in school. Some of them are embarrassed to go to school because they don't have a backpack or they don't have the supplies that they're asked to bring into school.

Mark (: 25:09

Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 25:31

In the summertime, we do a used book drive so that they have something to stimulate them in the summertime when they're at their, they go to their local chapel church for like a teen summer to keep them off of the streets. So we provided books for them to have there, books that they can relate to, reflect them. We do a winter clothing drive to give basics to these kids so that they're not...

Mark (: 25:43

Okay.

Janet Goldstein (: 25:53

struggling in some areas. That's the most that we could do for them at that moment. But we do in Moms Demand Action support our survivor organization. We have a survivor's network. so we do, whenever they have events, whenever they have a foundation, we do what we can to support them with what I call mom power, but also with grants if we can do that, whatever we can do to get them through. Cause that's really what they need right now is to get through days or weeks or months or the next three years.

Mark (: 26:15

Yes.

Yeah. Coming off of what you just talked about when you did the presentation, is that something that Moms does where they sit down and just kind of create a forum for conversation and to listen and to let youth and people affected by gun violence be able to speak? Do you ever coordinate anything like that?

Janet Goldstein (: 26:37

So I don't personally, one of our community partners, it reached out to me and said, I need for you to come. have our daily teen meetings in the summertime to keep these kids off of the streets and in a building where they can be supervised. She said, I need for you to come and speak with them. She said, and I did it last year as well. But I have found that I said to her,

It's not about me speaking anymore. It's about me listening. said, and she said, can you come more than just once a year? I said, I'll come as often as I want. So we have the leeway in moms to do what we feel our communities need because a community in Long Island is very different than a rural community in upstate Rochester. So they give us the latitude to do what we believe we need to do within our communities to help those communities. So when I'm asked to speak, I...

jump at the opportunity in those communities. I'm asked to speak in many communities on Long Island. I'm asked to do interviews, but to me, being in the communities that need us most is most important. I love speaking at my temple. My rabbi has me at Gun Violence Prevention Month. He has Awareness Month. He has me speak and it's wonderful. But I think I'm, and I do it every year because I love doing it, but it's more impactful when I'm in a community that needs me more.

Mark (: 27:40

Mm-hmm. Right.

Sure, so you're as an organization, very malleable organization, so you really bend towards the need and you're willing to adjust how you approach it. Yeah, it's really wonderful. I I'm drawn to the idea of that because I feel like that's where we really miss out on listening to people and the problems instead of telling people

Janet Goldstein (: 27:55

You have to be, yes.

Right, exactly. There was one night, I had a national night

out, there was one night that I met this woman and she said, she came over to our table specifically when she saw the word guns on our shirt, and she said to me, know, I own a gun because my apartment was broken into a couple of years ago and I have to defend myself. I said, that's fine. I said, but you understand secure storage laws. And she said, no, I didn't know there were. So she had no idea. It's not explained at a gun shop where she purchased her gun.

So I explained it to her. happened to have a cable lock with me. I gave it to her. I said, please just put this around the gun just so that you have it safe. I said, what do do for a living? And she's a foster parent. So she has children coming in and out of her house. I eventually went to the gun shop that she went to, not wearing my mom's shirt, but I went into the gun shop to ask them if the, I definitely stood out of the crowd at the gun shop, but I wanted to know, do they let people know about New York state law? And the gentleman said, well, there's a sign up there and it was covered by.

Mark (: 28:52

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 29:01

guns and other things. And I said, how do you let people know what New York state laws are so that they're safe? know, they're purchasing a gun for their safety, they believe, so you want to keep them safe. He said, well, there's a manual inside the packaging. And I said, listen, my husband, when he gets packaged with something, he throws out the manual. if there's a couple of screws left over at the end, you know, he doesn't, and I said, so, you know, that's one thing that I think we also needed to address.

Mark (: 29:17

Okay, nobody's reading that.

Yeah, no, that's definitely not gonna happen. People aren't gonna be doing that. And when you have so many concerns in your life and you're coming from a situation where maybe you have several kids that you're trying to feed and get through a day and things like that, you and you have one, maybe two jobs, yeah, you're not gonna be aware of these things. And that's also, right, that's how these communities are kept repressed. And so, you know, you're over here, we're over here.

Janet Goldstein (: 29:42

Exactly.

One of, in Rockland County, one of our

moms has a whole group that weekly work at the soup kitchen there. And that's what they feel is working in their community. So yeah, it's those basic needs that have to be met by many of these families.

Mark (: 29:59

Yeah, I mean, it's a great idea going to the soup kitchen because you're infiltrating yourself into the community in ways that now are obviously you're disarming people in the sense that, okay, they don't have to be afraid to talk to you because you're showing that you're open to being there and wanting to listen.

Janet Goldstein (: 30:18

and

building a relationship with people. I built relationships over the years with numerous more public figures within these communities. And now they invite me to events that I would normally not get invited to. I was invited to a Boys to Men event in Long Beach, and I was the only woman there, and I was the only white woman there. And the head of it brought me over and introduced me to everybody. And I was accepted by everybody because he told them who I was, why I was there.

and had really meaningful conversations with people there.

Mark (: 30:47

That's really cool. Yeah, I mean, that's the real stuff, right? That's really getting into it. And that's where I just, it's so frustrating. And I try to keep my emotions at bay, but it's frustrating because, that's what our leaders need to be doing, and they're not doing it. I mean, what's the point? So, so grateful for an organization like yours. And Moms is under the umbrella of Everytown, correct? Just mention Everytown, just so people know what Everytown is.

Janet Goldstein (: 30:52

Yes.

Yes. Okay. So

just to step back for a second, after the Sandy Hook shootings, this Women's Shannon Watts decided that she had to do something and as a mom, she felt that she had more power than she had originally thought. And so she created Moms Demand Action. Mike Bloomberg from New York City reached out to her. He had an organization called Mayors Against Illegal Guns. And he said to her, let's work together. Together they formed Everytown for Gun Safety, which is our umbrella corporation. Everyone that works for Everytown.

are paid employees, have lawyers, have statisticians, have lobbyists in DC and Albany and all the other states as well. And they kind of direct us. So I have an operating manager who oversees, meet with him, actually met with him just before this weekly to talk about where we're going, what issues we have coming up, what we need help with. And so Everytown has Moms Demand Action underneath it. We have Students Demand Action. We have our Everytown Survivor Network and the two initiatives which are Be Smart and...

and one thing you can do, which discusses red flag most. Yes, so Be Smart is a presentation. There's a website, besmartforkids.org, and it talks about secure storage and how you can go about having conversations with other people when you send your child on a play date, whether or not guns are secured in another household, because too many times we don't ask. We ask, you know, there...

Mark (: 32:06

Can you talk about those two programs to talk about Be Smart?

Janet Goldstein (: 32:29

Are there food allergies? Are there pets in the house? But you don't ask if there are firearms. So it kind of gives people the verbiage that they need to have those conversations. And it also talks about specifically New York State law on secure storage. I've gotten this into school districts, churches. Elected officials have had me at town halls to do this presentation. And the other one is, and we actually have Smart Week coming up August 25th through the 29th. I've reached out to elected officials and asked them to please post on their social platforms.

Mark (: 32:31

Right. Right.

Janet Goldstein (: 32:55

the letters S-M-A-R-T and what they stand for so that we can educate as many people as possible on secure storage of firearms. And our other initiative is One Thing You Can Do, which talks about red flag laws. New York State has red flag laws, but in Suffolk County they're implemented a lot more than they are in Nassau County. But it's about implementing red flag laws, which when there's a person that is

suffering from a temporary mental health or emotional crisis. There's an extreme risk protection order that can remove the guns from their house temporarily until they either feel that they're better and can petition to have them back. It usually lasts a year. Or the firearms can be kept out of their homes for another extended period of time based on their emotional health.

Mark (: 33:40

Okay. And what was the other program? It was Smart. Yes. That's good. That's good.

Janet Goldstein (: 33:42

One is be smart and one is one thing you can do. That talks about, yeah, that talks about, those are our two initiatives. But under Everytown,

there's our survivor network where we support our survivors. We have survivor fellows and our students demand action.

Mark (: 33:57

Okay. Do you have many survivors that represent within the group that go out and speak to people?

Janet Goldstein (: 34:02

Yes, I learned very early on that you can't use your survivors as accessories. They have to be there to advocate because they're the ones that are dying and seeing this gun violence around them on a regular basis. I try to include our survivors. We're there to support them in their endeavors and their events. And there's about seven events throughout the year that we do regularly with specific community partner survivor groups.

We try to have them with us when we go to Albany, when we go to DC, because their voices need to be elevated more than anybody else's voices. And so we bring them with us. I also feel similarly about students. They're not an accessory either. I used to say that the students are our future, but they're not. They're our present because they're the ones that are getting shot and killed. So I think students and survivors are very integral part of what we do in Moms Demand Action. And it comes from every town, but we're the ones that work.

know, boots on the ground with them.

Mark (: 34:55

Yeah, right. speaking of children, you would just think that the murdering of six year olds, a classroom of six year olds would be the line. And now we're. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 35:03

It hasn't been the line numerous times. Yuvaldi is our example of that. That was just a year two ago.

Mark (: 35:11

And that whole idea of arming teachers when you had all these police officers standing outside a room for 45 minutes and not doing anything, right? And the teacher's supposed to have the wherewithal to be able to arm themselves and shoot the perpetrator. Meanwhile, you're keeping a loaded gun in your classroom, right? So, no.

Janet Goldstein (: 35:29

Right, doesn't make sense. As the daughter

of teacher and the mother of a teacher, I fully understand as I know you do that our goal is to educate these children and to give them as much knowledge, them with knowledge, not harm ourselves with firearms. That someone will choose to own a firearm on their own is another thing, but firearms to me don't belong in schools. That's a safe place and that should not be a place where there are firearms.

Mark (: 35:41

Yes.

Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 35:52

that I walk into my old school that I retired from, and there's bulletproof glass, and there's two entrances, and you have to be buzzed into both entrance ways, is just such a change from how I went to school. it's, yeah.

Mark (: 36:00

Yeah.

Yeah, it's dystopian. It

feels dystopian to me, you know.

being a teacher who had to go to school every day and think, you know, could this be the last day for you or for your students? And then also just what I'm doing now and working with parents and representing students and the idea, all of a sudden you want to come to a CSE? okay, sure. Not even thinking about it. It's like, wait, I have to go back into a school now, you know? And then you think it's a whole different concept. I mean, it was never something that should ever have happened.

Janet Goldstein (: 36:27

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 36:34

And now that's what it is. Teachers are frontline workers, you know, and their lives are on line every day. They're heroes.

Janet Goldstein (: 36:40

And it's not over. It's going to happen again. There's going to be another Parkland. I worked very closely with one of the parents of the teacher that was killed in Parkland. you know, she relives it each time there's another school shooting. And those don't have to occur. I see the trauma on her 10 years later. And it shouldn't have to occur. Parents should not have to lose their children at a school, whether the child is a teacher or a student.

Mark (: 36:54

course.

Yeah.

Janet Goldstein (: 37:06

they shouldn't lose children at school.

Mark (: 37:06

Yeah,

I forget the number, but I think I saw something maybe around 291 school shootings in the past three years. It's just insane.

everybody still has a concern about it. And so I just wanna read you this Pew Research Center reports that 25 % of US public school teachers experienced a gun-related lockdown.

during 22, 23 school year and 18 % were extremely worried about shooting at their school. And then they talk about the chance of it happening in a given year and one in 81,000. But that doesn't take away the risk and it doesn't take away the fear that is existing every day within these teachers and students. mean, the anxiety among students has to be outrageous at this point. What are we doing for the mental health of these children in schools?

Janet Goldstein (: 37:55

That's a very good question. And that came up last year on advocacy day that the trauma just of an actitude to drill in itself is as long lasting for the children, for the teachers. So research has shown that this trauma, the trauma of these drills is worse than the amount of lives that it saved. There's no evidence that these drills have saved lives.

2023 when we advocated in Albany, we advocated for trauma informed drills, which meant that parents are notified before the drills so they can choose to opt their child out of the drills. That there are mental health workers there before, during, and after these drills. There are some schools, districts across the country that have active shooter drills with police officers, with

fireman with

fake blood. And that's traumatizing to kids more so than than anything else at that point. And so the bill that we asked our New York state legislators to pass was one with trauma informed drills, fewer drills, they don't need to have five drills per year. To be honest with you, when I was growing up, we had

nuclear bomb drills where we had to go underneath a desk, that was not going to save us. know, that was not going to save us. Huddled in a corner, watching my students huddled in a corner, watching me go towards the door to see if it was locked or unlocked, terrified them. Hearing the jiggle on the outside of the door when the principal checked was terrifying to them. So what can we do, was your question. As a teacher, I discussed these drills with parents. This is going back a number of years before I was told whether not I was allowed to, but I felt it was very important for parents to understand

Mark (: 39:03

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Airplane. Yeah. Right.

Janet Goldstein (: 39:31

what the impact that this had on children. Going to Albany to legislate for, because we can only do it at the state level at this point, for drills that were, as I said, trauma-informed. And we continue to bring up BE SMART presentation into school districts because that opens up the dialogue and the conversation with parents about what do I do when my child comes home terrified because their teacher had to walk to the door or my daughter, who's a teacher, had to be the one that was checking the doors.

it terrified her to open a door and see the faces of these children scared. So those are the things, some of the things that we do in Moms Demand to kind of combat the trauma caused by these drills.

Mark (: 40:10

Yeah, it's created a cultural shift, right? And so the way we normally thought about school and the way we talked about managing our children's fears and things like that had nothing to do with shootings, So parents are ill-equipped. And so suddenly these are happening more and more. And so what does a parent do? And like so many things, we're not educated or prepared to handle these types of situations. So I think every school needs to be open to the idea of having a mom's come in and work

Janet Goldstein (: 40:19

Right.

Mark (: 40:36

with the students and the families.

Janet Goldstein (: 40:36

So we come in, we don't come in as moms. come in as, since it's an initiative from every town, we come in as every town representatives. We have a different shirt. It just says, smart on it. Because sometimes these shirts elicit a negative response from some people because they think we're political and we are, it is totally a nonpartisan issue and it's a nonpartisan organization. It just so happens sometimes one side tends to align with our,

Mark (: 40:52

Sure, sure.

Janet Goldstein (: 41:01

mission more than other sides of the aisle, but we wanted to make sure our message was not clouded by people's opinions about gun ownership. it's a separate initiative from every town. Mom's demand is not mentioned in these presentations. Mom's demand is not discussed. We really just focus on getting the message out of secure storage.

Mark (: 41:19

Right. You know, the the pro-gun politicians always speak about the mental illness is the cause of these shootings and not the guns. Do you feel like there's any room for conversation about how to help these people because they don't seem to be doing anything? Is there any way that mom has any kind of...

influence or do they focus on anything like that as far as helping resolve that question of, so we need to address the mental illness, but you're not addressing the mental illness, so how do we go about doing that?

Janet Goldstein (: 41:51

So oftentimes we will hear from gun activists that it is a person shot the gun, the gun didn't shoot the gun, or the say, right, not the gun, it's a person that shot the gun. And oftentimes they say it's mental health. Mental health is one of the root causes of gun violence. It's one of many root causes. And if those causes are not addressed, then it's going to continue. But if there are mental health issues, the easy access to guns.

Mark (: 41:59

Right, it's not the gun, right.

Janet Goldstein (: 42:19

is what makes it more of the issue than anything else. And that's why the legislation that we advocate for mostly is about access to firearms. It's not necessarily, we address the mental health issue. We know that that's a root cause, but that easy access to guns. If you look back on any of these school shootings or many of the mass shootings, many times the person had access that should not have had access to a gun.

Mark (: 42:38

Yeah.

And I just don't understand that they say this, they say that it's the mental illness, but they're not doing anything about it. There's no policy to help people. There's no money being put, in fact, money's being taken away.

Janet Goldstein (: 42:53

Right, well in the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, there was money allotted to those systemic causes, those root causes. There was through executive orders, which can easily be pulled away, which had been taken away in the past year, whether it's a suicide hotline money, money for the workers at the suicide hotline to deal with people with mental health issues. A lot of that support has been taken away. So they're not helping, they're hurting that area of.

Mark (: 43:01

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah, it seems like people are just kind of being left out, left out there. ⁓ Purposely. Yes, exactly.

Janet Goldstein (: 43:19

of cause of gun violence.

Yes. Purposely.

Mark (: 43:30

So let's talk about how people can get involved because gun violence affects communities across the country and the debate continues and it's divisive. So from your perspective at Moms, how can everyday people get involved in meaningful ways and do you see any solutions that could realistically gain support for both Republicans and Democrats?

Janet Goldstein (: 43:51

Yes, so I appreciate this question so much because it's so important. Moms Demand Action is a nationwide grassroots organization made up solely of volunteers. None of us get paid other than the student that comes up to me every once in a while and says, you did a great job, thanks. I'm gonna talk to my mom or dad. That to me is my pay and that salary can't be matched by anybody else. So there are chapters of moms in every single state. So there are 50 chapters. That's a state level chapter. And then within each chapter there are...

the word READY, R-E-A-D-Y, to: 64433

not only the state chapter, but also the group that's closest to where your zip code originates from. And then from there, someone can reach out to you within Long Island group, have teams. So we have a legislative team. have volunteers that love doing legislative work, love reaching out to congressmen or state senators. Then we have a public education team made up of.

the word ready, excuse me, to: 64433

Mark (: 45:28

Mm-hmm.

Janet Goldstein (: 45:36

group of Moms Demand Action and there's something for everybody. Some people like just to post on social media and that's wonderful and that's what we can use people that like those kinds of jobs or duties. So yeah, it's a great organization, great opportunity to make a difference within your community in whatever way works for you or you see fit.

Mark (: 45:47

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's incredible. I can't wait to do more.

Janet Goldstein (: 45:59

And some of our volunteers love to fundraise,

and that's really another great aspect of what we do.

Mark (: 46:03

Yeah, and that's where I was able to get super involved because that's something that was right up my alley. I had never done a fundraiser before, but I've directed kids in big productions and things like that, so it wasn't a big deal to me as far as I was concerned. I was like, okay, let's just put this together. And I'm really excited to be a part of that because I feel like that's gonna help educate more people too. And get people in who maybe have questions or might be initially

like no, you know, but they get in there and they hear some music and they just start to maybe like open up a little bit more.

Janet Goldstein (: 46:36

It was a great opportunity. I also want to add that when we fundraise, we do have a small budget from every town that we have for supplies, which is our buttons and our pins and our placards that we have. But the money, I get to choose where that money goes as the local group lead for Long Island. And I choose to make sure that money goes towards the school supplies drive and the winter clothing drive. So that's where I spend that money on.

money that we make from fundraising does not go back to us, it goes back into our movement and our mission and what we can do. I don't buy pens and pins and bracelets with that money. I use that money towards those survivor foundation events and opportunities.

Mark (: 47:16

So I'd encourage anybody who wants to get involved to get involved. And also if you're interested in doing a fundraiser, I think, because as we talked, when I brought it up, you said that you really don't do a tons of fundraisers, right?

Janet Goldstein (: 47:29

We don't because it's not my alley.

My alley is finding people that can do really great things and meeting you on the bus up to Albany. I could see your enthusiasm and knew that you'd eventually do great things within our organization. And not only did you do that one fundraiser, which was wonderful, and it just beautifully choreographed and beautifully put together and tremendous amount of organization on your part, but it also sparked something in me and the other volunteers to...

want to do more of that kind of thing. So you brought more to us than I think you realize.

Mark (: 47:59

That's the greatest thing I could hear. That's my payment, man. That's fantastic. That's awesome. I know going up against the federal government at this point, trying to make any kind of headway is a real, I don't know if it's a dead end, but it's not easy.

Janet Goldstein (: 48:02

Right, exactly, exactly.

It is not easy, but

that's why we're focusing a little bit more at the state level and seeing what we can do. You know, when the Office of Gun Violence Prevention was disbanded at the federal level on day one of the new administration, day two, we were meeting with Albany to have it codified in New York State because although New York State had an Office of Gun Violence Prevention, it was an executive order as it had been in the federal government. So we worked very hard with our legislators.

to make sure that it was codified into law. And that was one of our three successes from Advocacy Day was that it was codified into law and our Office of Gun Violence Prevention cannot be taken away unless by a vote by the state legislature. So it's those kinds of things, but we are not stopping at the federal level either. We're still pushing for CCM to fall flat on its face. And we are...

still bound to working at the federal level to do what we can, regardless of where the current administration stands, because I am sure that we can meet them on some common ground, at some common place. And we have an expression in mom's demand, besides moms are everywhere and expect us, it's keep going. And that's what we do, we keep going no matter what.

Mark (: 49:19

Yeah.

Yeah, can't give up. Can't give in. Can't go complacent. ⁓

Janet Goldstein (: 49:24

Happy.

Mark (: 49:25

or defeated. The message is so strong. You're such a strong leader and I feel so I'm so grateful that you took the time today and I'm so grateful for all you do and all the people, all the volunteers at Moms and you addressed it at our fundraiser and I didn't I didn't address everyone and I want to thank everyone for all they do and it's just an honor to be a part of it. Thank you for this opportunity today because this has been long overdue in my opinion as far as my podcast goes. I've been wanting to represent this

this topic for a long time. And I'm so grateful for your time and your educating us.

Janet Goldstein (: 49:54

I want to thank you too, because

having a platform and having the opportunity to reach more people is just what we try to do, is to kind of spark that light in others so that maybe others can join us in this movement.

Mark (: 50:07

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, this is going to go out as my podcast. I'm also going to put the video out on YouTube so we can spread it. You can utilize it and spread it as much as you need or want. Is there anything else that I might have missed? I know we covered a lot today. Is there any final message you want to say or

Janet Goldstein (: 50:13

Perfect.

Thank you.

Yeah, there is. It's frustrating and it's upsetting when we see on TV these mass shootings. We just had one that hit close to home for I'm sure a lot of your viewers, the Midtown Manhattan shooting as well as the Crown Heights shooting. But I want people to know what they don't see on TV is the local shootings that happen on our street corners. Those don't make the news. There's no equating how horrible one is compared to another, but.

There's so much more that's occurring that you don't see every day and that's what we're out there trying to do every day. The mass shootings are horrible that you see it on the news, but it's happening daily on our street corners, disproportionately as I said before, and that's what we're working and we'd love to have more people in our movement to help combat that.

Mark (: 51:04

Yeah, so true. Thank you so much for saying that because it does get lost big time. Yeah. Thanks so much, Janet. It's been such a pleasure. Yeah, I'll be talking to you very soon. Have a great day. Okay. Thanks.

Janet Goldstein (: 51:12

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate it.

Very good. Thank you. Thanks, you too. Bye bye.