Interview with Lynn Greenberg: Co-Author of “Suzie the ADHD Taxi”

Mark (: 00:00

welcome to the show, Lynn. I'm so happy to have you back. It's so great to see you and...

lynn greenberg (: 00:00

Thanks.

Good to be here.

Mark (: 00:05

Thanks. And it's exciting that we have another book to talk about. Last we parted, you said you were working on the new book, and here we are. We've arrived.

lynn greenberg (: 00:09

Very exciting.

Here we are, we've arrived and we haven't even been able to update the fact that we won the Creative Child Book Award. So we're waiting for the stickers. No, it's very exciting. We did for Robbie the first book as well and now we just won and so we're waiting for the stickers to add to this book. We're really excited. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

Mark (: 00:22

You too?

Right.

⁓ congratulations. Yeah, that's amazing. Wow. What a,

just a concept what it's become, huh? Just a concept way back.

lynn greenberg (: 00:40

You know, I think it really has an appeal because there really aren't a lot of kids books that talk about neurodiverse, you know, issues. And so either the kids with the neurodiverse issues or the people who care for them and teach them and love them, or people who are trying to understand what those could be. It's had really a wonderful broad appeal. So we've been really excited about the response.

Mark (: 00:58

right?

Yeah, I want to get into that broad appeal. First, let's just remind the audience who you are, if that's okay, just a quick rundown of your background, and then we'll jump right back into this.

lynn greenberg (: 01:12

And sure. Sure.

So my son John and I, my youngest son Jonathan and started a children's book series with the first book which is called Robbie the Dyslexic Taxi and the Airport Adventure. And we have had such a wonderful response that Robbie, who works at the Creative Cab Company, we decided to start a whole series called the Creative Cab Company series. And we just came out with

Susie the ADHD taxi and the sightseeing adventure. And we really are hoping that we will come up with more stories and we'll have ⁓ equally wonderful responses.

Mark (: 01:55

Yeah.

Well, I would imagine you will and you're off to a great start with another award. So obviously you're on the right path, right?

lynn greenberg (: 02:02

Thank you. Yeah, well,

it's been appealing to a lot of people.

Mark (: 02:07

Yeah, I'm curious what made you focus on ADHD this time.

lynn greenberg (: 02:13

So, when John was little, at school, people were saying, you know, ⁓ he's slow, a boy, every excuse. And we knew that wasn't right. So we had him tested because the school wouldn't do it. And this is when he was, six years old. And he tested out classic dyslexic, but also had ADHD.

And we came to find as we started the journey of exploring how best to educate John, that there were so many people, so many kids who did not have just one neurodiverse issue. They call it comorbidities. have often many, more than one. And quite often ADHD accompanies dyslexia or...

dyscalculia, which is trouble with math, or dysgraphia, which is trouble with writing, or autism. So we just thought that John knew quite a few people from the school that he went to who did have dyslexia and ADHD. So we figured we knew about the subject.

Mark (: 03:16

Mm-hmm. Well, you're talking from Jonathan's strengths, too. You're speaking from his strengths, right?

lynn greenberg (: 03:21

Absolutely. It's

his superpower. He always tells people, make it feel that you're less than, you're neurodiverse, whatever, neurodiverse issue, whatever it is, your difference is not a negative, it's a positive and it's your superpower. So lean into it and find your community and find a way that you can best show ⁓ the world who you are.

Mark (: 03:34

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, because we each have our strengths and our weaknesses and we all have something to offer. And yeah, we're different and that's a good thing. know? exactly, exactly. And this brings such great recognition to the community too. And like you said, it speaks to a lot of different audiences. And I want to talk about that a little bit. I'm just curious, how did you approach capturing the strengths and the challenges of ADHD in a way that feels

lynn greenberg (: 03:56

You bet.

it's a wonderful thing. How boring life would be if we were all the same.

Mark (: 04:20

like authentic to the ADHD itself, yet can be connected with and joyful for people who reading the book.

lynn greenberg (: 04:28

I think that people have misconceptions about ADHD, I think, just like anything else. And I also think that people don't really understand sometimes their differences between male and female with ADHD. They can be expressed differently. It's not just running around and not being able to sit still. There are issues with attention. There's issues with

the ability to maybe see things through. But again, not everybody exhibits their ADHD the same. And so we wanted to say, ⁓ so in this case, Susie, the taxi, really was having trouble just doing the same routine every trip. for Robbie in our first book,

It was a strength for him because he had trouble reading the signs. So for him, a strength was, me do the same routine so that I'm comfortable. For her, it became a problem because she was, I can't do the same routine all the time. I'm bored. I'm not focused. What could I do? And we found for her, her strengths would be doing something along the same path, but a little different each time.

And so she would tour the city and show everybody, different exhibits and go on a different path. And that way she could use her strength.

Mark (: 05:57

So it remained interesting for her as well and then she could bring that same energy each day.

lynn greenberg (: 06:02

She did and

everyone who came into her car was thrilled and happy with their new adventure. So. And her wonderful energy, so, yep.

Mark (: 06:08

Right, and the great energy goes with that.

Just quickly about the audiences that you're trying to reach here. You're saying you're getting a response from different audiences. What audiences are you trying to reach? And what audiences have surprised you?

lynn greenberg (: 06:24

I

I think originally the audience that surprised us was the community that did not have a neurodiverse difference. And we found, and what we had hoped was to be able to communicate to anybody, either to the person who had the difference, that they were valued and important, and to the people who did not know or did not have the difference, what that could look like.

And I think still, unfortunately, in a community where we already know that neurodiverse differences are amazing, I think in the world sometimes we're not accepting of differences. And we wanted to shine a light on the positivity of that. And we have come to find that people are interested in learning and not just saying, I...

I thought it was a bad thing. They're saying, ⁓ wow, I didn't know what a positive response could be, how I could help channel my child, my friend, my grandchild, or in a classroom. We've had really interesting responses to the positive side of these things.

Mark (: 07:39

I think that's wonderful. And I think it's the language that we use too. It's, when we say, when we talk about them and they, and we talk about they have, he has, she has. What is that? Right? So we're, we're, we're compartmentalizing everyone into one, one small box. And, so when you say they have, you immediately go to a negative, right? Oh, that's too bad. What a shame. as opposed to then seeing what you're talking about this,

lynn greenberg (: 07:48

Yes.

Zachary.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Mark (: 08:08

positive human side to everyone,

lynn greenberg (: 08:11

a hundred percent. I mean, when John was little, family members, when we found out he was dyslexic, we didn't even bring everything up, but, ⁓ I'm so sorry. And I'm like, why? Look at John, he's amazing and he's artistic and he's funny and empathic. He's just a wonderful human being. Why? ⁓ shucks. ⁓

Mark (: 08:22

Right.

Yeah,

and how many of us, it takes so long to find out who we are, In a way, it's like, well, you want to know who you are, you know? What are the challenges I'm going to face in life? And if I have the knowledge of what those challenges are, I can better handle those challenges when they come to me, So.

lynn greenberg (: 08:48

yeah, I totally agree.

Mark (: 08:50

so I really feel like this is such a wonderful way to communicate the diversity within our society. we're all diverse and we all have our own things, you know, so.

lynn greenberg (: 09:02

% and anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. right?

Mark (: 09:05

There's no question about that. That's for sure.

know, people don't like to face it,

lynn greenberg (: 09:10

I'm always, why be an ostrich? I think the correct labels are important, as you said. Let's explore what this means and how best we can show the world how great we are. Not stuff it in a box and try to ignore it.

Mark (: 09:26

Absolutely, I'm a person with ADHD and look at what I can do, right? Yeah, a thousand, yeah, a hundred thousand percent. All of those numbers, What are some of the things that children, we've talked a little bit about it, but what are some of the kind of themes that children can take away from the books, things that they can learn from the book? You had it on your website, I wanted you to talk about those things a little bit.

lynn greenberg (: 09:30

A hundred percent, yep.

You bet, all of those things.

you know, I think it's important to understand that, if we're talking about ADHD, know, boys versus girls, sometimes girls are, more quiet, but they're also having trouble focusing. Boys may be a little more rambunctious, but I think you can't pigeonhole anybody. I think it's really important. Like when John was little, he could sit down and for an hour longer, do a Lego.

But if you said can you do this math problem? He'd get up and walk away because he he couldn't and you know I think you have to I think you really truly have to watch your child or the person you're talking whatever at any age I think I know there are plenty of adults who have ADHD or other neurodiverse differences who are never diagnosed and I think

Mark (: 10:39

Tons.

Yeah, and so many are now being later in life diagnosed. I want to talk about that In a second, go ahead.

lynn greenberg (: 10:46

Yeah, no, no, no. just think the nonverbal cues are important as well. For John, he couldn't sit down when the teacher, when he was little, asked him to sit and read a book. Why? Not because he was disruptive, but because he was embarrassed. He could not execute on what the teacher was saying. So ⁓ he would get up and walk away.

It made no sense at the time because we hadn't had him diagnosed yet. We knew he wasn't a kid who looked to cause trouble. So why was he acting out? What did that mean? And the truth is we've came to find, A, he had a little trouble sitting still sometimes, but he had trouble sitting still because the teacher was embarrassing him. And I think you can't pigeonhole.

your child if you're looking to see if there's maybe something that they're struggling with. I think you have to look at the whole picture, what you're being told, but more importantly, what you're seeing and knowing your own child and trying to help figure out what the difference might be.

Mark (: 11:53

Yeah, it's so well said. by understanding who your child is, by asking them questions about what their experiences are, right? So we're understanding them better than assuming for them, then we're not putting them in places that they're going to be uncomfortable because they're going to have a say a little bit in what's going to happen. And I think that parents and teachers alike, when you say the teacher embarrassed them, what is that? It's like a power trip or something like that.

lynn greenberg (: 12:00

Right.

Mark (: 12:20

how do I reach this child? Okay, obviously there's something going on. What's going on? And so as parents, that was amazing that you took that and decided to investigate it further. Because a lot of parents won't too, because they'll take the teacher's word and then all of sudden this child's on this completely different path that isn't necessary, right?

lynn greenberg (: 12:33

Yes.

Yep. A hundred percent.

and that was part of the problem. The teacher he had at the time was not the nicest. And instead of saying, you know, and part of it, I think, is that we don't educate our teachers enough. And we also have just too many kids in a classroom. And, how can address one child's issue, whatever that issue is, when you're dealing with,

Mark (: 12:55

on both

lynn greenberg (: 13:03

25, 30 kids and they all need attention. And I think we need to make classroom sizes smaller, but we also need to tell our teachers, you know, different things to look for. And unfortunately, the list gets longer and longer and we just can't expect every teacher, even a learning specialist, we can't expect them to know how to address all of the different.

kinds of issues and nuances. And I think it's complicated. And I think we as parents really have to try to advocate for our children. And if we can't find what our child needs in the school, how do we either help them, help their teachers help them, help them outside of the school, add other benefits, other tutoring if it's possible, other kinds of...

Mark (: 13:30

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 13:58

know, help. I, know, for every child it's different.

Mark (: 14:01

Absolutely, I mean it's a huge problem. And I mean we could get into all the specifics of socioeconomic or different backgrounds, all these type of things, but I agree with you that the classes are too large and teachers are over-pressured to have to teach these standards as opposed to meeting the child where they are. It's impossible. And so, it's really about, and I don't think it'll ever happen, it's a societal turn that teachers are

lynn greenberg (: 14:24

Now.

Mark (: 14:27

more important than, football players and things like that. And that they get incentivized to get the education that they need, create smaller classes, hire more teachers. If we're talking about the future, then this is what we need to be investing in. And it's not, it's not teachers are put down, teachers are overloaded and kids are lost because you said, as you said, the classes are too big.

lynn greenberg (: 14:51

I agree with you. think, you know, sports are fun and they're important and I like to watch them. why should that guy get millions and millions and millions of dollars and the teacher get barely a livable wage? So I think there's got to be, it's twisted. just think we need to, you know, make

Mark (: 14:55

Absolutely, I'm not putting it down, it's prioritizing.

Exactly, Twisted.

lynn greenberg (: 15:16

the playing field literally, figuratively, a little more equal. It's just, when you balance it out, that and honestly like nursing and some of the fields that we really, really need in this society, we just don't value monetarily and it's a shame. Science. No, yeah.

Mark (: 15:18

Yeah, the more Yeah, balance it out.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. Science, you know, ⁓ yeah.

Well, it's does science really exist? none of it. None of it. I just heard today that the department of ed they're going to really go in and just try to eradicate it entirely. I mean, it's been on the path and now there's talking about actually finally doing it. And so, you know,

lynn greenberg (: 15:47

No, or climate change either, know. So, you know, none of it, no.

Mark (: 16:04

everything that exists in the negative already is just going to be not the priority and things changed in such a way that the things that we're talking about will never happen because the money won't be put there, people are being fired. And so what hope do we have? And I really do believe it comes down to the parents. The parents need to pick up the ball. The parents need to stop thinking that they need to be their child's friend all the time.

and allowing their child to do whatever they want. And they need to take that responsibility back. And I'm not a conservative person in my politics, but when it comes to parenting, you are the model, And these children are always looking for direction, whether they're a typical child or a child with exceptional needs, they're looking for direction, and you need to be that person. So that's where I find, we can maybe put our resources into.

helping the parents understand and educate the parents better.

lynn greenberg (: 16:57

I think so. agree because, I have four kids, three in-law children, three grandchildren. And I am firmly, I'm not a tough parent, but I firmly believe that the word no is okay. And I think there have to be rules. think kids, I'm not saying don't budge, don't, don't, you know.

Mark (: 17:19

is flexibility.

lynn greenberg (: 17:20

be flexible, but I really believe children, like everybody, need to have boundaries and they need to know those boundaries and don't cross them. There's certain boundaries you just don't cross and I think it's important for everybody.

Mark (: 17:28

Right.

I agree in my parent training, I focus on mindfulness and it's really a practice, It's just a, it's a way of coming at it, but it doesn't take you out of the game as if you're just now going to be this kind of limp noodle. You are trying to connect with your child and understand your child in order to be able to help them better and guide them better. And so that's really where I'm coming from. Take that step back. Instead of reacting, respond, think about it.

take your child's feelings into consideration, take, as we spoke about earlier in the classroom, trying to understand why your son got up and walked away, right? And so that's what my hope is to continue to spread that concept out into the world. So parents really can take a step back and also take care of themselves along the way. But that's another podcast for another time. ⁓ The self-advocacy part is really important that can come through in your book because Susie, knows what she needs.

lynn greenberg (: 18:10

And.

Mark (: 18:30

Right? She needs that variety.

lynn greenberg (: 18:33

She needs a variety. so originally when they had set her on a path that she really just couldn't do, she asked for help. She told them what she needed and it worked out for her. And I think we also, not just as parents, but we also need to give our children the tools to self-advocate as they get older. ⁓ Obviously you have to start and you have to be there for them always. But I think as they get older,

John became one of the best self-advocates and, not being difficult, but he would say, don't forget, I will need extra time on this test. I'm allowed to have it or, as he got older, obviously, not when he was five or six, but you have to give incrementally your children the ability to know themselves and self-advocate. And I think part of that is knowing for them that you have their backs.

Mark (: 19:13

Of course,

I agree. You empower them, right?

lynn greenberg (: 19:27

Yes, you have

to impair them.

Mark (: 19:28

Yeah, you

have to empower them to be able to have their own voice. And so, like you said, you start early and you feed that confidence along the way. And I think that the sooner we allow our children to be involved in the decision-making, obviously we make the final decisions for them because they're still too young, but as they get older, they can make their decisions for themselves too. They get to high school, they can say, well, I know myself well now because I've been brought up to know myself and it's a perfect world solution.

But it's one that needs to be more common. And I think that's just a matter of parents taking back the power, their power. And it's doable. We get so lost in the everyday, and it's understandable. Things are really difficult right now. And so that's totally understandable. And I'm afraid of losing the generation of kids to...

lynn greenberg (: 20:09

there.

Mark (: 20:17

the fact that there's so much incoming constant information and distraction and all that kind of stuff that it's really going to be a real challenge to overcome. What I'm

lynn greenberg (: 20:26

No,

I agree with you. I think it's hard. think, you know, we are all ⁓ in a place historically that I don't think anybody thought we would be. And it's not easy. And I think, social media and all those things are good, but they also need to have limits there. know, John and I will talk about it. And he like sometimes, you know, starts doom scrolling and I'm like, put your phone away.

Mark (: 20:53

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 20:53

You know,

he'll be in, he's in Chicago getting his MFA, but, he'll like, did you hear, did you see? And, and in Chicago, you know, there's a lot that's going on. And so, we all talk about it, but I think it's really important for us all to be more compassionate, but, you know, to also,

Mark (: 21:03

Yeah, there's lots going on.

Yeah.

lynn greenberg (: 21:18

be able to know what we need to succeed. And that is hard to, you know, with all the stuff going on, it's very, it's hard.

Mark (: 21:24

Yeah, stuff, Yeah.

It is hard and the doom scrolling is very easy because it's right there and it's feeding you what you think and all that kind of stuff and how you look at the world. And so it's just reinforcing. So we all get sucked into that. And it's then a matter of us being able to say, no, we have to stop and start living in the world. And that's getting harder and harder. And that's my concern for the kids of today is that parents are losing that grip potentially. And I want parents to know that they can get that back, and there's ways to do that.

lynn greenberg (: 21:55

I agree. have to find your power, whatever that means. However you need to execute that, we all do it differently.

Mark (: 21:55

you.

Whatever that means for you, right? It's individual, right? ⁓ That's

right. That's right. As long as we do it with empathy and compassion, then we're on the right track, We're all going to fail. We're going to make mistakes, but that's okay. We learn from them. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned girls and ADHD. They're often overlooked. what have you found out about that in your research for the book?

lynn greenberg (: 22:09

Yes, I agree.

It should be that way, you know.

You know, think John has some friends who have ADHD male and female, think societally women are told to be more quiet, to not be pushy, to not, and you know, so chemically, I just think ⁓ we are different, you know, people are different, but I think societally,

Mark (: 22:43

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 22:46

we as women sort of behave differently sometimes. And I think, just like anything else, ADHD, they often are, you know, obviously, however the brain is working, I'm not a neuroscientist, it, between that and the societal pressures, girls don't speak up and advocate for themselves as well. So,

the little girl might sit more still in her chair, but she's no more focused with ADHD than the boy next to her who might get up and move. But she knows she might, you know, she knows she has to sit still or behave differently. And that's just what's expected. I'm not sure if that's the medical scientific explanation, but it's kind of what we've seen.

and with the people that we know and with the research that we've done. It's just girls behave differently.

Mark (: 23:40

So it's like an observable consequence of what's going on for girls. in so many ways, women are historically are always getting the brunt and being told to be quiet and, it's a form of abuse too because you're ignoring what this child needs. And that's, very sad, very upsetting. ⁓

lynn greenberg (: 23:43

Yeah.

It is.

Mark (: 24:02

you know, it's interesting when I was reading the book and the word special, and I'm always wondering about, because in the community, the word special is one of these words, it's not an accusation or thing. I'm just curious about, you know, your approach to choosing the words that you chose for the book. I'm always walking that fine line of special needs and exceptional needs. were you thinking about that when you were using the word special in your book? Or how did you come upon the decision to use that word?

lynn greenberg (: 24:27

I think, unfortunately, there are words that are sort of buzzwords you definitely, know, special ed. For us, the buzzword is disability. For us, it's a learning difference, not a learning disability. but it's still classified as a disability no matter what you do.

And so I don't know that we picked special as a negative. think we see it as everyone is special, but we also are talking to little children. And so the vocabulary is different. ⁓ They don't know about special ed yet. They don't know. They just want to be, you know, important and special. so I think, we debated word choices and crossed out and changed, but,

if we gave it a more scientific name, I think a lot of little kids would have been like, what does that mean, mommy? So we tried to keep the verbiage on the simpler side.

Mark (: 25:28

Yeah,

it's a lovely explanation. I love it. again, it wasn't look, you're using the word special. I'm always curious about it because when you're not using it in the way you're looking at it, or we're referencing it, people are looking at it as a way to separate, each other again, you know. So thank you for that explanation. I really appreciate that. In both books, you're printed in a dyslexia-friendly font.

and you have it both in English and Spanish. So the accessibility aspect of that, why was that really important to you?

lynn greenberg (: 25:58

Because I think, in the part of the conversation that continues to be, embrace, everybody and who they are and their differences. I think we have found, Spanish speaking people, the numbers are growing to, you know, a bigger and bigger extent in this country. of course the world, but, in this country. And I think

as hard as it is for parents of English speaking children. I think in communities like New York, where we are very close to, and big cities, they're everywhere though, not just that. But I think it's very hard for people who don't speak the language to get lost even further if they're having trouble at school. And so we are hoping, ⁓ and honestly learning the process of how to

not just have these books, but how to reach out to different language speaking communities, because we want, the children of people who don't speak English, the people, the kids in the classrooms who are having trouble in general, but also having trouble with the language to feel seen as well. So we started with Spanish because that's, you know, one of the biggest other languages in this country. And we're hoping if we...

can get it to catch on to maybe branch out into other languages as well.

Mark (: 27:21

Yeah, I love that. What specific font is a dyslexic font? Which fonts do you choose that are very clear? It's very blocky, it seems like, and clear.

lynn greenberg (: 27:27

So. ⁓

It's interesting because people say, John, does it look different? And he goes, I don't know, because I don't know what you're seeing and I'm seeing. But when John was little, there was no such thing as a dyslexic friendly font. just learned how to read with whatever was printed. But when we were doing our research originally, there too, there's dyslexia and I'm blanking. Sorry, it'll come to me. Senior moment.

Mark (: 27:36

Hahaha!

Right.

it's OK. It's OK.

Yeah, no, no.

lynn greenberg (: 28:00

But you know, they say that these two fonts are ⁓ just make it easier for someone struggling with dyslexia on the path to learning how to read. They say it makes it easier for them. So we thought, if we want to reach as many people as possible, then let's make it as easy as possible. So we picked dyslexia. Yep.

Mark (: 28:24

Yeah, it's, you know, like I said, it's very, very, in a sense, letter type, right? Very clear and, and outlined, nothing fancy. And it makes it very easy for me to And I'm not dyslexic, but I appreciate it.

lynn greenberg (: 28:30

Mm-hmm. Yes. Very.

Well, we

figured everybody could benefit as you just said, you know, because especially little children who are, quote unquote normal readers, they're learning and it makes it easier for them too because it's very, blocky, not scripty and circuitous and, just sort of very easy to, figure it out.

Mark (: 28:45

benefit.

Right.

Yeah, it's just another benefit to inclusion, You're including everyone in the process. What do you hope that parents and teachers and therapists, what kind of conversations do you want them to have with the children when they're reading this book?

lynn greenberg (: 29:05

You bet. ⁓

So it's interesting, years ago when Robbie came out, my oldest grandchild, who's now nine, but at the time was in first grade, and I went to his classroom and I read the story. everybody, know, back then, kids are learning how to read at that age. And some kids can do it better than others. And so they would ask, it opened up a wonderful conversation with kids who were,

having an easier time learning how to read versus kids who are struggling with it, asking me questions. What does it mean? What is, what did like somebody who's dyslexic, what are they seeing and not seeing? And the teacher was asking me questions. And I know that's what we had hoped that kids could say, ooh, I wonder if that's me or gosh, I wonder, you know.

I can see that. wonder, you know, if I could, what it would mean if I couldn't. And it just, touched, I think, everybody in that classroom that day. And that's what we were hoping for in the general population.

Mark (: 30:20

That's fantastic. And when did you decide that an object, like a taxi, would be something that could speak to a child? Because there's always books about animals. when you talk about as an author, you see the trends and things like that. What made you believe that this was a path to communication for kids?

lynn greenberg (: 30:41

I think we were going back and forth about it. And for us, there were a couple of things. John, when he was little, loved Thomas the Tank Engine. could tell you every friend of his, their name, but couldn't tell you Thomas started with the letter T. So for him, cars and trains, and some people said, well, it's more of a boy thing. And I'm like, well, that's a little sexist, but, know, okay.

Mark (: 30:52

Right.

Sure.

Yeah, a little bit.

lynn greenberg (: 31:07

But you know why? And for us, we just thought, there are a lot of stories with animals and that's wonderful. And we have them all in the house for the kids and the grandkids. But also, a car could be cheerful and they could have, different journeys. Like what would a car do if it couldn't get somewhere and read the signs? Or what would a car do? You know, so.

I don't know, for us, we just thought it could be very cheerful for children, which was our goal. It has worked. everyone's like, when I went into a school and they're like, are you gonna, are you gonna do an EV next? Are you gonna, you know, what about this? What about, like, which one, you know, it's just everyone, it was great. So, ⁓ they are.

Mark (: 31:35

and it seems to have worked.

⁓ That's so great. Yeah, they're offering their own ideas. That's really cool. That might be

a fun way to do it, right? Get suggestions from the kids themselves and write to that. That's really fantastic. I love it. So you're going around to schools and you're reading the book and you're speaking.

lynn greenberg (: 31:56

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

we would love to do more of that because I think it's a wonderful way to reach everybody, children, teachers, and it opens up conversations. John, we were talking about the fact that schools are inundated and teachers have too many kids. And for us, we had to make a decision how best to educate John. And...

Mark (: 32:10

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 32:27

The special ed teacher in the school and our, you know, we have a lovely school district, but she basically said to me, I can't help him. Like I'm trying, I don't have the education. And so we looked, I was glad she was honest and we looked and we, there's a school about 45 minutes away from us and it's a private school. And we debated because all they do are take children with ⁓ dyslexia or language based learning differences. And obviously, you know, ADHD or whatever, but.

Mark (: 32:34

Hmm. Wow.

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 32:56

a certain population, and as we know, a lot of dyslexics have super high IQs. They just need to know how to read. And we made a family decision because it's private school. So, you know, what do you do about that? Well, we eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly. you know, and I had to drive him. There was no bus. And so we made a family decision because we felt we still feel that it's super important.

Mark (: 33:12

A lot of sacrifices go into it.

lynn greenberg (: 33:24

to learn how to read. And so he went there for a few years and it was wonderful because, ⁓ you know, he found his community and he was educated. I found a group of people who also felt and understood our path and our journey. And so it told us, you need your people. And I think that's important. Always find your people. And now there's like Facebook and other ways to do it.

Mark (: 33:48

Absolutely.

lynn greenberg (: 33:53

podcasts like these are wonderful, but you need to find your community and you need to find, you know, I think what's how best to educate your kids. And so one of the schools we went back to is the school he went to called Windward. And we read them Robbie and now we're hoping to go back to read Susie. But then the kids were like, could you do ADHD next? Cause we all have ADHD too.

Mark (: 33:54

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Well, you know, you canvass your population, canvass your audience, right? Get the feedback and you know what? Yeah, that's fantastic. And I want to, you know, I talked about parents being needing to be educated and challenges and all that kind of stuff. And I don't want to be completely down on parents at all. I want to be, I want to support the parents. And I also want to say that the parents are the heroes because you, talked about the sacrifice you had to make. And I know so many parents who've had to make so many sacrifices for their kids.

lynn greenberg (: 34:24

There you go. And we're like, yeah, that's what we're doing.

Yeah.

Mark (: 34:47

driving them

hours a day to a special school. know, whatever kind of support that they needed and the parents needed to sacrifice monetarily, giving attention to all your children. It's an insane job, it really is. And so I want parents to know how loved they are and how supportive they are and they are heroes and we're here for them, for sure.

lynn greenberg (: 34:59

Yes.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Mark (: 35:12

I want to ask you about your website because the website you actually have activities on there. You have some resources. Can you talk about those?

lynn greenberg (: 35:18

Yeah,

have its creative cab company.com and that's also our social media. We're on Instagram and Facebook and we're exploring other options and tick tock. We're working progress and John and I have been writing for a sub stack articles and so we're trying to add more and more.

things to our website, we're adding coloring pages and resources. And, it's important that we think to give people a place to go and look. Obviously, you know, I am not a doctor. I don't have an MD or a PhD, but I've lived it, John's lived it, and we have asked experts to help us.

And so we put what we can and we are always adding to it and would love to hear from other people. If they have thoughts and ideas, there's a way to contact us because, you know, we're a work in progress and we really love and respect anybody's input. we're hoping people will reach out and we can have more conversations.

Mark (: 36:25

That's always been my hope too, because the feedback is so important because it helps you get direction and serve the population better. Yes. How far do you travel as far as going to schools? What's your radius that you'd be willing to do?

lynn greenberg (: 36:29

Yes.

I'm open. I'm in Connecticut. John's in Chicago. We have, someone who's helping us to do all these things. She's in New York. have other people in California. We are open to going anywhere. And so, yeah. I had somebody in Texas say, would you come here? I mean, it didn't work out for a lot of reasons, but we'd be, we would love to.

open up conversations and also there are ways we can do it online. We've done that as well too, live conversations.

Mark (: 37:05

Sure. Okay.

Okay, great. Yeah, because I would love to spread the word and certainly I have teacher friends who would just eat this up.

lynn greenberg (: 37:17

That'd be wonderful. We'd love to do that. We have put up like a file, even when we're there, you can see the book as we're reading it and then we have questions. So, that is something that we could do. We could send somebody, you know, the book and they can put it up. And if we're not there physically, we can have the conversation this way and the book can be in their school as the kids are looking at it. So there's so many ways

Mark (: 37:42

Mm-hmm.

lynn greenberg (: 37:45

we can have these conversations virtually now too.

Mark (: 37:48

That's great. People take note of that and reach out to Lynn. Yeah, I like that there's a teaching how to draw like John on the website. Tell me about that a little bit.

lynn greenberg (: 37:52

would love that.

so, John is, think, you know, I've said John is my artist when he was little and couldn't read, he started drawing. was a way for him to express himself. And, now he is getting his MFA in Chicago and he loves, he, his art, he has many different sides of him and he has these wonderful, adorable characters in these books.

And then he does other kinds of art. So he has a different website, online presence, and websites, but he expresses himself differently. people are always asking him how he can, how do you draw Robbie? So we decided to put that up and we'll add to it.

Mark (: 38:43

That's great because that's something that the kids can tap into, And learn to draw themselves. I was curious, you know, as we wrap this up, I'm just curious, do you have a direction for your next story? Do you have a theme? you chosen? Because I think when we left off the first one, you had the idea of the ADHD as the focus for the next book. Do you have a focus for a next book at this point or characters that you're creating?

lynn greenberg (: 38:46

Yeah. Yeah.

We are trying to incorporate some of the ideas I've mentioned, like maybe an EV with anxiety, or we're trying to explore what vehicle could best show a difference that we are exploring. And how is the community at the Creative Cab Company, how are they going to help and encourage a new

Mark (: 39:20

Yes.

lynn greenberg (: 39:29

vehicle in their midst. And at some point maybe, because there are people, characters, that maybe we introduce some of them as well. We are exploring and since John is in the middle of almost graduating, we are exploring, but it's not quite as quickly as it was when he was.

y we'll have something out by: 2027

Mark (: 40:00

Mm-hmm.

Yes, absolutely. As long as my show is here, you're always welcome back on it. And I love the idea that it's kind of almost growing into this idea that the vehicle fits the theme, right? So you're looking for a vehicle that actually would express anxiety, as you mentioned, something like that. That's really interesting. How do you get to that place with this inanimate object?

lynn greenberg (: 40:05

Thank you.

There definitely. Yeah,

and so somebody somebody suggested, you know, we've heard suggestions and we're like great suggestion, but now we have to try to figure out how to execute it in a believable way. So.

Mark (: 40:38

Absolutely. Yeah.

While suspending disbelief. Right. Right. Yeah. Because as we spoke the first time with the first book, there's GPS, right? So the car could use the GPS, but that's not the point. Yeah. And that's not the point. We're trying to understand a disability

lynn greenberg (: 40:42

Exactly, you know, within a character and a character.

Right, but you know, we don't want it to, or you Right.

Mark (: 41:02

Movies are like that, you suspend disbelief, all those type of things.

lynn greenberg (: 41:03

Yeah, well.

And I think that's important too. I think the world is hard and crazy and I think we need just some joy that takes us out of it and, you know, suspending your disbelief in a children's book or, however you need to do it. But for us, we're doing it this way, hoping kids, find some joy in these stories and the parents too. Thanks.

Mark (: 41:27

beautiful. And I was going to

say you may not be to PhD, but you are a lawyer and you can argue. You can make a good argument.

lynn greenberg (: 41:33

So I'm really good at it. Just ask anyone in my family.

Mark (: 41:41

man, Lynn, it's such a pleasure to have you on again to speak with you. I really feel like we could go in a lot of different directions with this conversation too. I'm so glad that we were able to touch on variety of things. You're just a pleasure to know and I'm so happy for your success and Jonathan's as well. Give him my best, please.

lynn greenberg (: 41:52

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

I will. He was so sorry he couldn't be here, but we really love these conversations. up for any conversation with you or anybody. So reach out. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Mark (: 42:08

Yeah, sure. That's great. I wish you all the best with this. Yes.

My pleasure, Lynn. Have a great day and continue to be successful. Thank you.

lynn greenberg (: 42:16

Thank you too. Thanks.