Kim Zajac: Voices of Change: Speech, Inclusion, and Technology in Today’s Classrooms

Kim Zajac (: 00:00

Hi Mark. I'm good. I'm going to turn up my volume. I can never tell on my computer what's going to happen.

Mark (: 00:01

Hi, Kim how are you?

Kim Zajac (: 00:09

it's really a tough time to have computers that aren't up to snuff. It is. It's like, so when we were asked the question, why didn't you cover all the curriculum, is the answer, the bandwidth, and the computer speed was not sufficient? Is that acceptable? Is that an acceptable answer? Because this is the truth.

Mark (: 00:14

For sure, everything's happening so quickly. It's true.

Right? Absolutely. For sure. Isn't acceptable, right?

It was always, I remember during observations and you'd have this whole plan and it'd be tech involved and stuff, but you always had a backup because when the tech inevitably failed, were Johnny on the spot. Now what do I got to do? what do I do to make this work still? And yeah, it's not forgiving for sure in the moment.

Kim Zajac (: 00:42

Yep.

No, it's not. And

we do think on our feet a lot. But then it seems like when the contexts shift, the expectations do not. So it's like, OK.

Mark (: 00:58

Yeah, right, exactly. You

better be just as good doing this as you were when you planned it. Yeah, yeah, well, with all your credentials and your background, I'm sure you're pretty good at dancing on your feet when you need to, coming up with new steps, you know? ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 01:03

That's right. Owning a skill.

Yeah, it's yeah, I mean, that's my

that's my world is sort of like, you know, being ready for anything when it's happening.

Mark (: 01:19

Yeah.

I'm looking behind you. Is this a classroom or is this an office?

Kim Zajac (: 01:25

This is, well,

it's a classroom. It's where I see my students. It's, you know, yeah, bigger than the average SLP workspace, although I've been here 12 years and it's taken that many to get here. Yeah, yeah. I started off in a room. It was a shared room and it was an interior room, so there were no windows and there was no ⁓ air circulation, right? So now, 12 years later, I'm in a room with windows.

Mark (: 01:28

Both. ⁓ Yeah.

Okay.

I'll work out.

Kim Zajac (: 01:55

It actually has air conditioning because it used to be computer lab. I also don't have to share anymore. So this is the first year for that, the first year not sharing.

Mark (: 01:55

Hmm. my goodness.

You really rock.

11 years there and then your 12th year you got rewarded.

Kim Zajac (: 02:11

I got rewarded, right? And this is like

almost year 30 in the job, right? In other places where I've worked, I have had my own space and my own phone. For first time in 12 years, I have a phone. It's on my desk. I don't have to stand up and walk to it so that it's in a central location for everyone. I've arrived. really don't. Yeah, thank you. I know. I feel like the universe is, I don't know, doing some good work for me, and I'm grateful.

Mark (: 02:16

Right.

Okay. Holy cow.

Everyone, right? You have arrived officially. Congratulations.

It's smiling. Well, it's grateful to you for being doing this for 30 years. So you got to get that reward somewhere. I'm just when I look behind it just brings me back to the classroom. it's just everything on looking at the rings and everything hanging and just like all the stuff that you do as a teacher. Those are like the minutia, and yet you have to be as we alluded to earlier on top of your game and you have to be able to answer the bell every day. And that is quite a challenge for teachers. And that's something that people just don't understand.

Kim Zajac (: 02:46

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark (: 03:07

You have to have all that together and be able to manage these little people.

Kim Zajac (: 03:10

Exactly, and they're

developing every single day, right? Their brains are not fully developed. They're learning through natural experiences and hopefully, you know, the designed experiences that we provide for them. ⁓ But there is a lot involved in that, lot of moving parts.

Mark (: 03:23

Yeah. Yeah.

So much because they come to you every day and you don't know what to expect. Like when you go to a job, everybody's, They have to show up to their job and do their job. They can't necessarily bring their personal lives, but these kids bring their personal lives every day. And who are they today? You know, what are they struggling with? So you have to be that counselor on top of being your pathologist and teacher and all that. So pretty cool.

Kim Zajac (: 03:40

Alright,

Yes. Yeah, it is. It is the best

work. It's challenging work, but it is the very best work.

Mark (: 03:51

It is.

I agree. I loved it. And I don't necessarily miss being in the classroom anymore, but I do always love the kids and still appreciate what I got from those those experiences. And now I get to talk to people like you. And I'm really, really loving it. And it's been a little while for you and I to get our get ourselves here. But we're finally here and I'm really excited to meet you and to talk to you because

Kim Zajac (: 04:04

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark (: 04:18

As I said, you're really quite prolific with all the things you've accomplished with all your credentials and your certifications and your roles and the leadership that you do. mean, there's so much to talk about that there's no way we're gonna get it all in today. But what I'd like to start with is just maybe you could give a little bit of background in how you got into this world and then we can go in any direction. mean, we can talk about all the topics from the questions that we created.

And if you want to have a jumping off point where you'd like to start and we could just kind of move from there, that's great too. Or I'll just ask you a question and we can go from there. But a little background would be awesome.

Kim Zajac (: 04:49

Okay.

Okay,

yeah. Well, ⁓ thank you, Mark, for having me here on the podcast. As you know, my background is in speech and language pathology and audiology. And part of the journey that kind of ⁓ got me to where I am now and in my educational career path ⁓ was my own K-12 experience, right? So I went to ⁓ a public school, you know, education system, south of Boston, Massachusetts. And ⁓ I was there K through 12 the entire time.

And part of that experience when I was in high school was that my classes were mainstreamed, that was the term we used at the time, ⁓ with students who attended the Boston School for the Deaf, ⁓ right in the same town. And they would come over, they would come over on a bus and be ⁓ at the high school. And ⁓ in my classrooms, I became ⁓ familiar with what it meant to be deaf or hard of hearing and what kind of went with that in terms of supports and how

Mark (: 05:35

wow.

Kim Zajac (: 05:51

to make learning processes and experiences accessible, even way back in the 1980s. ⁓ And so having a sign language interpreter in the room, that just became part of the expected backdrop. ⁓ Exposure to things like amplification, hearing aids, pocket talker, FM speakers, that sort of thing ⁓ was, yeah, loop systems. All of it was just, it was part of my experience. And so it was really,

Mark (: 05:57

Mm-hmm.

loop systems, all that stuff. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 06:21

⁓ interesting to me to watch and see how different learners could approach the learning process with specially designed instruction or assistive technology supports and participate and engage with equity or at least intended equity. ⁓ We've come a very long way since the time that I was in high school and that's part of what drives my work but it is what drove me to explore the career path of

language pathology and audiology. People say to me like, why both? There's a number of different factors that went into it, but at the very root of it all is the fact that communication is a two-way street, and there are multiple modalities that we use in order to communicate as human beings, right, to understand and express. And so being able to understand all the systems involved with that, auditory, written, text, spoken, to me is

is just a huge piece of what it is to be a human being, you know, and to be an engaged community member and an engaged participant in the world. So that's kind of what drove me to the career path of speech-language pathology and audiology. And ⁓ I've worn many hats. I've worked across different settings. I'm currently working in a public school system southeast of Boston, known as Norton Public Schools, where I support middle schoolers in their communication and learning process.

Mark (: 07:36

Hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 07:50

process. ⁓ And they're just they're awesome. I really just I love this this age range. We really do. You know, middle schoolers are.

Mark (: 07:54

Yeah.

Do you love the age? Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 08:02

They're a hoot. They are smack dab in the middle of their adolescence and the way that they're learning about the world and their creative process and figuring out sort of like who they are as a person and how they like to engage, where they excel, and where there's work to do. for me, that's exciting and really awesome work, and it's why I continue to do what I do.

Mark (: 08:04

They sure are.

Yeah.

So great. Historically, that's an age range that people aren't sure that they want to teach. Yeah. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 08:35

It can be challenging at times, but it's like anything in

life. It's sort of through the messy, through the challenges is the most beauty, right? It's the most transformation.

Mark (: 08:48

Yeah,

that's where you find those little gems, right? I think you didn't know, totally appreciate what you're saying there because it is such a ⁓ time of self-discovery. There's a lot of confusion, a lot of questioning going on and you have an opportunity to kind of help shape who the person is too. to me, was always the draw for the lore towards teaching for me was the helping with the development of the person. That was the part that got me the most. I didn't realize that you had this background with the deaf school.

Because you may have.

heard that I taught in a school for the deaf for 30 years and that's where I got my background. And so we had the kids going over on the bus to the high local high school being mainstreamed and all the interpreters everything that you talked about was my life. You know I was not an interpreter I was a teacher but we used sign language you know to teach the classes. And so all those things that you're talking about are so familiar. And ⁓ and then became this you know crisis of language you know between.

Sign language, pure ASL in the 90s, closing off spoken language, and then all of a sudden it changed with the cochlear implants. So, you know, it's a very political, very divisive, used to be even more so. I don't know how much it is anymore because I'm not in it as I was, but it was real divisive. And a lot of people who were there prior to the ASL had to leave the job because they weren't proficient in sign language and that was the demand. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 09:56

Yes.

Mark (: 10:16

So yeah and having an interpreter in your classroom it's a major adjustment to having just more people and more adults and and but you know it's great because I saw the kids going from this small school and being mainstreamed into the larger public school and being exposed to kids hearing kids and public school expectations and things like that and they were forced to grow and they did.

You know, ⁓ a lot of these kids that you didn't see certain things coming all of a sudden were showing proficiency and ability in a lot of different things. So it was great.

Kim Zajac (: 10:50

pretty amazing what a little

access and opportunity can do, right?

Mark (: 10:54

Absolutely, absolutely.

And I think that's where I kind of want to start today because I feel like it's been the more recent overriding theme of a lot of my interviews is inclusion and equity. And maybe we could just kind of start there. Maybe you could just start us off talking about how you feel that's changing and maybe how it's changed a little bit in the evolution of your work.

Kim Zajac (: 11:07

I think we should just kind of start there.

Yeah,

I think the concepts of access and inclusion are highlighted more than ever now across the educational landscape and for a wide number of different reasons. ⁓ There's a lot of good energy, I think, ⁓ out there around ⁓ leveraging technologies and the way we design ⁓ experiences in learning process so that it can be ⁓ universal, right? Universally accessible to anyone in the class.

⁓ and for learning to extend actually beyond the walls of the classroom for things to be even more transferable as a result of being accessible and inclusive and ⁓ experiential in the process, right? The days of the worksheets, the days of, ⁓ you know, just sort of isolated splintered learning contexts and activities are sort of are gone, right? We may start there as a building block, but there's a lot more that can be done.

Mark (: 12:13

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 12:17

⁓ to make learning stick and to make it truly something of value, relevance, and that can be meaningfully applied across anyone's life, right? We're not just teaching a skill for one particular use case. It's for uses across the curriculum and across really the lifespan. And so thinking more broadly and taking a sort of a design thinking mindset into the way we think about what is learning. ⁓

who are the user personas in front of us and also understanding ⁓ that the iterative process is also an important thing not only for the learner but for the teacher. So I think we've evolved as an educational society to be more aware of the fact that we are all learners.

Mark (: 12:59

Absolutely.

Kim Zajac (: 13:09

Right? ⁓ There may be different ⁓ defined roles in a classroom, teacher, student, learner, educator, support person, but at the end of the day, we're all learners. There is no finish line to learning.

Mark (: 13:10

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right, absolutely, and I think teachers are wise to stay open to that. I feel like what I've learned more about universal classroom design ⁓ has, it's really kind of where, as a creative person, you'd want it to go, because you know that not everybody learns the same, right? So giving kids a variety of options to display their understanding of a concept is, mean, what a beautiful thing. What a more pure, natural, and open

thing is that. And I'm curious how it's changed because it really wasn't.

part of my experience. I was doing it in little ways because I had small classrooms and I was able to be a little bit more flexible and innovative with kids. But I know in larger classrooms, always, when I'm speaking, I'm speaking from that experience. And I know there's people out there that are like, you have no idea what it's like when you have a large classroom to do this kind of stuff. So can you talk about maybe what you've seen in the experiences that people are having now as teachers and how it shows up? Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 14:27

Yeah, well it's...

Yeah, think

one thing that exists that probably didn't in the distant past when we were learning and fresh out of maybe our graduate school training is that ⁓ now there are organizations that really are spearheading energy and effort and supports and resources so teachers and students can benefit from universal design approaches. there's an organization called CAST, the Center for Applied Specialized Technology.org. And they are actually sort of like the founders

of universal design for learning principles. And so they have a ⁓ wonderful framework that any educator can access. It's free, it's online, and there's oodles of different resources within their website itself. Podcasts you can listen to, articles you can read, case studies that you can learn about. And it really outlines the many different ways you can think about approaching the design and delivery of instruction, engagement, and expression. And so teachers are using resources like that to leverage

Mark (: 15:06

Yes.

Kim Zajac (: 15:28

their thinking and from my point of view with that resource, the framework, along with your own personal experience, understanding the students in front of you allows you the ⁓ ability to do a little bit of what I call the zooming in and zooming out, zooming in and zooming out in terms of what you're doing with curriculum and how you are delivering that within your learning environment. And it's leaning into that iterative process where you can start with an idea of what the lesson is going to be about or what part

of the curriculum you're going to be leaning into, and then think about what are the many different ways in which I can deliver the content? How can it be consumed? Can it be consumed in a story, a video, ⁓ a role play, a play, a poem, maybe? ⁓ Can there be some visuals involved with this? Because not all learners are going to love the reading piece. Not everybody likes to watch a video. ⁓ But maybe there's some static ⁓ options that are available.

Mark (: 16:22

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 16:27

and then thinking about how can I be creative in the way that I let students ⁓ show back to me what they took away from that. What did they understand? What did they not understand? What do I need to do differently and go back to and review? Or what might be something to think about in the future as front load? Like maybe we need more support with vocabulary. Maybe we need more of a visual for a timeline. Maybe we need to do more check-ins. ⁓ So many different ways that we can think.

Mark (: 16:46

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 16:57

about designing creatively and offering things like choice boards that you know as the teacher contain all the same elements, right, that there's equitable amount of content being ⁓ delivered but the student themselves get to look at it as almost like a menu and pick and choose what it is, how they want to consume it, how they want to process it, and then how they want to produce a learning outcome to demonstrate for a basically formative ⁓ and summative assessment of what did

What did they take away?

Mark (: 17:30

It brings up questions like for me preparation as a teacher ⁓ gaining the knowledge of how to go about doing that. How is training being offered. it is it in the classroom now as teachers are teachers being trained about universal design in their master's programs and training at the schools and are these do you I mean you can only speak to so many schools but you know do you feel this is more ⁓ the way the rule these days in schools.

Kim Zajac (: 17:58

I do

see a big push. see, you my experience has been ⁓ that the districts are offering professional development in this area. Also, you know, I can speak for the state of Massachusetts, Massachusetts Teaching Association. They offer to their union members ⁓ an opportunity to take one free PD per, I guess, like a season. ⁓ And you can earn PDPs for doing this. And part of the offerings ⁓ center around ⁓ special education PDPs.

which almost always have, you know, at least two, three, maybe four offerings that center around universal design. So, and these are all, again, like highly accessible because as part of your union dues, these are courses that are free to you.

Mark (: 18:43

That's wonderful.

Kim Zajac (: 18:43

You just need

to know that it exists and then sign up and complete the learning. And ⁓ they're really rich experiences. There's nothing better to learn from about something like universal design than to bring 30 to 40 teachers who are practicing across the Commonwealth to share what they're doing, what's working well. And also, let's also talk about what doesn't work. Listen to what I tried and how terribly wrong it went. ⁓ Those are sometimes the most valuable cautionary things.

Mark (: 19:06

Right?

Right,

you learn from your failures more so than your successes.

Kim Zajac (: 19:14

Yeah, and we need to talk about that

more. need to talk about, and again, it goes back to sort of like that iterative process that it's not just about checking the box. It's not about getting the lesson to a T the first go round. A really great lesson is one that has seen many iterations and has included student feedback because they are the ones having to receive it and do the actual work of it. ⁓ And so getting teachers together for a PD like that.

Mark (: 19:32

iterations.

Kim Zajac (: 19:43

And many of them are virtual now, thanks to technology. So you could have a teacher from Western Massachusetts and someone from Cape Cod in the same learning session, the same PDP ⁓ course, and sharing what they're doing with universal design. It's really great.

Mark (: 19:54

sure.

across state, which

is really amazing. Yeah. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 20:01

It's really, really great. It's just like new, the last couple of years. It's a new art that the

union, the MTA is offering. ⁓ But, you know, it's been very well received and it's high quality.

Mark (: 20:14

⁓ I'm you know the preparation for teachers to do this because there's so many multiple multiple ways for kids to learn. Do you find there's more of a demand on teachers as a result of it or is this is this made things a little bit easier more creative. I know teachers right now there's so much demand on teachers and so many expectations and they're kind of like cornered a little bit or a lot. Dependent on where you are.

Kim Zajac (: 20:32

Yeah.

think

it's like anything upfront when you're learning something new, it probably feels like a heavy lift. It is a heavy lift because you're learning something brand new. when you give it a couple of ⁓ rounds, a couple of tries, and if you have the support of your district and thinking about middle school model, if the team you're working on is all thinking along similar lines, you can pool resources and things can go very, very well.

Mark (: 20:40

heading.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 21:05

you

Mark (: 21:05

I want to... Okay, I'm sorry.

Kim Zajac (: 21:05

I do think creative

options make it eventually less work. Once everybody understands that learning can be like sharing a meal, you're just sharing learning. And then you can order off the same menu, but maybe not choose the same appetizer, entree, and dessert. But you're going to all leave feeling full and satiated and really have the full understanding of what the flavor was behind the experience. That's great for everyone involved.

Mark (: 21:16

Yes.

So cool.

Hmm

Food metaphors are always effective. ⁓ That was, and I love when you said that the kids have give feedback to you and kids have input because I think that's really important because ownership is gonna create a buy-in for them, right? And so they're gonna be way more committed to the process. ⁓ Can you talk to me a little bit about how you use, I wanna get into AI and AI's involvement here. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 22:01

Yes.

Mark (: 22:03

Before we do that, I'm just curious, as a speech pathologist in your sessions, how do you work in universal design in your sessions, if you do?

Kim Zajac (: 22:11

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'm always supporting the choice that students make, that they have a say in what they do and how they do it. So it may be that I'll say, all right, here's the prompt. I want you to think about this question as a warm up today. Some people are going to write a poem. Some people might want to draw a picture. Some people might want to paint. Another person might want to write lyrics to a song. Someone might want to build with wiki sticks. And as long as they can either write or tell me out loud,

Mark (: 22:14

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 22:41

what their symbolic representation behind their response is and it's answering the prompt and meeting some whatever the criteria is that we've been working on in relation to their skills and goals ⁓ that that's kind of what I go with. It's not so much what shape it shows up to me in as much as it is the ability for them to explain what it means and why that matters and is important to them.

Mark (: 23:09

Okay. And as a speech pathologist, you're obviously working with kids with some delays in their speech. So when that struggles, I mean, you obviously have alternatives for communication. Can you just talk about a little bit about those?

Kim Zajac (: 23:13

Yes.

Yes,

so here in our district we've had the last, it's been about maybe the last year, year and a half, we've been really pushing hard to ⁓ increase our understanding, knowledge, ⁓ and just ⁓ professional ⁓ skill sets around augmentative and alternative communications. We ⁓ together as a speech and language department wrote several different grants in which we received funding for not only hardware and software but for

for us to have a coach to provide us with specialized PD and coaching and programmatic supports throughout last year and this upcoming school year. So it's been a game changer. We are a small district and so while that has its advantages, it also has its disadvantages, right? So in a larger district you may have, you know, 20 AAC users across elementary or more and, you know, same

Mark (: 24:03

was great.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 24:21

and secondary, here in such a small district, our numbers are smaller. So it more difficult to become masterful and also stay updated with all ⁓ the changing technologies. That said, the arrival of AI, I think, is going to really help a lot with that.

Mark (: 24:27

Smaller, sure.

Right.

Kim Zajac (: 24:43

because the AI will be almost taking on the role of being updated, being the entity responsible for having the most updated information and being a tool that's used by the practitioner to get relevant and meaningful, let's say, communication boards ⁓ created in a timely fashion.

Mark (: 24:56

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right. So it'll be like the educator for you and the provider for you. Yeah. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 25:11

Yeah, a partner, right? Like a thought partner ⁓ in the developmental

process in an area that's so niche. ⁓ And it's very hard to stay very up to the minute informed when maybe you have one or two students using augmentative communication. You try, you do your best, but you also are sort of like the jack of all trades for a whole litany of ⁓ different types of communication and learning disabilities.

Mark (: 25:18

Mm-hmm.

David. Sure.

Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 25:41

⁓ Yeah, but there are some really great things happening out there that I'm super, super excited about that are just are game-changing. Game-changing for not only for students, but educators and families.

Mark (: 25:41

Right.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Right, yeah, and I want to talk about the parents involvement too. ⁓ Before I get to that, what is the, you have a small percentage of children with special needs in your school?

Kim Zajac (: 26:04

Well

special needs our actual percentage is somewhere like close to 30 percent so with IEPs. ⁓ So and it's slightly lower than that for our whole district but it's still like lingering I think they had said like around either 26 or 27 percent. So it's higher than the state average ⁓ in this particular district. ⁓ So.

Mark (: 26:11

okay. Okay. Right.

Okay.

Okay. That's

great. So do you find that you're having more opportunities because your school has the access to the AACs? You find yourself a little bit more ahead of the game when it comes to those?

Kim Zajac (: 26:43

Well,

in terms of the percentages I just mentioned, that's not specifically AAC. That's just sort of a percent of IEP.

Mark (: 26:51

Right, but does it raise the numbers of children who are using it? Not really? You still don't have a lot? Okay.

Kim Zajac (: 26:55

Not really. No. Yeah, still not a huge,

huge number. We may say that that shifts, right? I think part of that could be that we have either under identified or not known how and when.

Mark (: 27:08

Mm-hmm.

Right, I think that's a tough call is to know when, right? Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 27:16

Right. ⁓

so having, ⁓ you know, this wonderful PD that we've had in the past year and will continue to have ⁓ has made us much better at knowing what to look for and being able to identify and also identify a clear path as to, you know, what would the next steps be for trialing, for, ⁓ you know, kind of choosing what AAC system would be, ⁓ you know, the best for a student or trialing things to kind

see in a more practical sense how it can work. ⁓

Mark (: 27:49

Mm-hmm.

Because I thought, you know, the speech pathologist is like the central person for that, right? So like, I know when we were doing it, you know, in order, we had to train to figure out how to input things and move things around, but that speech person initially was the person. So you would be like, okay, could you do this? Could you put this vocabulary in for me? All this kind of stuff as you were learning, right? Yeah. that's.

Kim Zajac (: 28:05

Yes.

Right, and if there's

10 or if there's a larger number of kids and the speech pathologist is overseeing all of that and it probably was in the case of a specialized school and not necessarily the public school setting. Yeah, absolutely, that has been historically the case. However, and...

Mark (: 28:19

Yeah.

Sure, there was.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 28:36

that ownership isn't always supporting the premise of access, equity, and inclusion, right? Because if the speech pathologist is the keeper of knowledge, like Yoda, about all things AAC, then no one else can maybe feel welcomed into the circle of capacity and capability, right? So one of our goals here in the district is to empower, of course, the SLPs will be sort of like the quarterbacks, right?

empower the classroom teachers and the power professionals and you know anyone who is engaging and interacting with students who might use augmentative and alternative communication to feel empowered to be able to create what's needed right right when they need it right

Mark (: 29:18

Mm-hmm.

Right. Because if you're a player in the game,

everybody needs to touch the ball at least once, So, yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 29:26

That's right, exactly. We're a team. so

AAC in the age of AI is going to see, ⁓ I think, a very big shift and a very empowering ⁓ shift and maybe gain some traction. ⁓

Mark (: 29:46

Yeah, I think it's exciting the possibilities are exciting. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 29:48

It really, really is. There's one particular tool

that I'm really, really excited about. There are lots of great tools in AAC, and many of them have been around for decades. ⁓ And they are still wonderful, and they have a lot to offer. ⁓ As a speech and language pathologist in a public school, where our augmentative communication numbers tend to be on the lower side, and ⁓ also where self-contained classrooms are not where our students are, even our students using AAC throughout our school.

Mark (: 29:53

Can you?

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 30:18

So they're engaged with not just special educators, they're interacting with regular educators, school staff, cafeteria, the front office, all kinds of things. So life, right? They're doing life. And so we want to make sure that they are empowered to have communication in that process. there's one particular tool that I'm really jazzed about that I think is going to be very instrumental there.

Mark (: 30:19

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, ⁓

Is there, can you elaborate it a little bit on it now? you, yeah?

Kim Zajac (: 30:46

I can, yeah.

It's a tool called Glint. It's G-L-I-N-T. And it's by a company. It's created by a company called Nurchat, N-E-R-C-H-A-T. So if you go to nurchat.com and then backslash Glint, it will come up. And it's awesome. It's an AI-powered platform that creates visuals of all kinds, anywhere you have a connection to the internet.

in minutes.

You can have a core board, whatever size you want. You can have nouns, verbs, adjectives, adjectives. You tell it the context. It creates a board. And then you can edit it. You don't even have to personally edit it. You can tell the AI, change that. Let me see your other options for coffee cup. Let me see your, change that shirt to purple. And really personalize it. Make it relevant to the student, to their context. And this is, that's just core boards. That's what it can do for core boards, but it can make visual schedules.

Mark (: 31:31

Hell it.

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 31:49

It can make task analysis. It can make social stories. ⁓ It's multilingual. think they have up to maybe 21 or 22 languages available now.

It, you know, and this can be done, anyone who has the account can do it. It can be your parent. You can be at the zoo with your child who's nonverbal or minimally verbal, right? Maybe it's a student who's got intelligibility challenges but has verbal skills and they are wanting to be independent. Well, if you have an iPad or even a phone and you can log in and just tell the assistant, like, I'm at the zoo, please make me a nine by nine core board.

Mark (: 32:02

amazing.

Right. I was gonna s- Yeah.

phone, yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 32:29

for communication like complete game changer and anything

Mark (: 32:33

What a game changer for parents. For everyone, but particularly

parents have this opportunity now. It's, wow.

Kim Zajac (: 32:39

Yep.

And the other thing I really love about it is at school if you create a board, you just take a link, email it home. Now everybody has it. Everybody has it.

Mark (: 32:52

So the home school connection is so solid there. That's amazing. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 32:55

Yeah, and that's the glue, right? Like that's the glue that takes

skills you work on in your classroom and then it brings them out to the gym class and the cafeteria and the front office. And then we're going on field trips and we're going home and the same vocabulary is being used in everywhere the child is. So then their sentence structure can grow, right? Then their literacy skills grow.

Mark (: 33:05

Hmm. Everybody's on the team. Everybody's on the same page. Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And they're.

Right. And you're using the same tool so they're familiar with it because yeah parent involvement is so so important. It's not always easy to have. ⁓ Are there parent training for things like this that you're aware of. Does that does your district offer it does your school offer it.

Kim Zajac (: 33:24

Yes. Yeah.

⁓ so.

Mark (: 33:44

I mean like our school used to offer sign language to parents if it was free, know, but now with all this technology changing, parents, hard to keep up.

Kim Zajac (: 33:51

Right, it's

such a, that is an excellent question and we are just, we are getting, you know, up and running with the Glint platform. So we are learning from the developers and, know, as a team internally and, you know, exactly like down this, I think across the school year, that's going to be a topic like how, okay, we have it, we understand it now. How do we, how do we communicate this to our parents and families? Yeah.

Mark (: 33:59

Mm-hmm.

and then you can pass along.

Yeah.

This is so exciting. I have

a client who's multiply disabled and he's a little older. ⁓ But wow, I'm so excited to check this out now because it really can open up the world for us.

Kim Zajac (: 34:26

Yeah. Absolutely.

And the story behind it is wonderful. The two developers, Dylan and Scott, ⁓ Dylan attended Vanderbilt. And ⁓ Scott, he's got an amazing background in tech, having done work for YouTube and Google around the areas of student safety ⁓ and.

know, privacy, that sort of thing. But Dylan had a friend in college who happened to be, you know, non or minimally verbal and used augmentative communication. And they really like, they were good friends. And when they were like on campus and together and it wasn't a break, communication was fine. You know, there was AAC, it was great. But then when, you know, they would go home on breaks and not see each other, like communication, they wouldn't be able to, you know, talk, remain connected. And so that was really, you know, frustrated.

Mark (: 35:14

communicate.

Kim Zajac (: 35:19

for them both and so Dylan was like, you know, this has to be fixed. This isn't acceptable. So he, ⁓ you know, went ahead and he and went ahead and had this idea and has birthed this amazing thing. Now you can use Glint on a zoom call. You can in the chat use symbolic communication. Like it's amazing. You're gonna want to do a deep dive after, your day might have just got rerouted.

Mark (: 35:36

Really?

I'm, yeah, I mean that's maybe the way I'm spending my day after this. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 35:49

But for the best

Mark (: 35:49

Exactly, exactly.

Kim Zajac (: 35:50

possible reasons. Yeah. I haven't been that excited about something of this nature in a very long time.

Mark (: 35:54

I mean.

Yeah,

yeah, mean, know, access to communication and to information is everything you want, you know, and it's never easy because everybody learns differently and it's hard to get to every student. So this whole, everything we're talking about opens that world up. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 36:16

It really does, and with

a light lift, right? Because we know how to do what you just said. We know how. It just takes usually eight hours. Minimum. Minimum. And, you know, where do those eight hours come from? But a tool like Glynt makes it just so much more. Right, yeah.

Mark (: 36:28

Yes, right. Right? Yes, exactly.

I mean, you know, like the drudgery of Sunday nights or Fridays,

whatever, getting your lesson plans together. So are you using ⁓ AI in your lesson planning and things like that as well? And do find teachers are doing that more and more?

Kim Zajac (: 36:42

have my Sunday nights back. haven't had these in like 30 years.

Yeah. I do

think that they're using them as thought partners. And different districts will be at different points and places with what they're doing with AI and if they have AI policies and that sort of thing. Yeah.

Mark (: 37:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm curious about what they're allowed to do as far as it goes. But I mean,

it just seems like why, I think it's right there. In seconds, you could have a plan. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 37:11

Right.

Yeah, and I think that, you know,

people...

People are aware, it's not a replacement. It's not meant to replace you as the teacher. It's meant to be like your thought partner. It's supposed to be put in an idea, put in something you already have and use and say, take my lesson plan and give me five new ideas for how I can use universal design for learning principles throughout it. And so if you give it the UDL new frameworks and you give it your lesson plan, making sure everything's redacted and there's nothing personal and all that,

Mark (: 37:23

Mm-hmm. Right.

It's an assistant.

right ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 37:47

⁓ You can then give way to a whole new level, a whole new experience for students honoring them in the ways that work for them.

Mark (: 37:59

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah, you're not taken out of it. You're putting in your thoughts and your ideas and just asking for expansion on them and maybe some. Well, sure. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 38:08

Yeah. And maybe you'll accept some of the ideas and other ones you'll say, I don't think that's a good fit for this group. But that's why you're the human.

That's why you're the human in charge. Yeah. Exactly. No one's taking your hand and forcing you to take it. That's right.

Mark (: 38:18

Yeah, you have the final say. Yeah.

Right, and you still have to put it into practice.

The machine's not gonna do, AI's not gonna teach it. You still have to be able to put it into practice. It has to make sense to you. And I think, parents too, the AI and things like that, the chat GPT and all those things, I think they should take advantage of it as well to help guide them. Maybe they're having some problems with managing their child's homework or whatever. Throw it into chat GPT, this is what's happening. Can I have some ideas about how to approach this?

Kim Zajac (: 38:29

Right.

Right.

Great.

Exactly, right? It certainly beats the

alternative of doing nothing. Right?

Mark (: 38:54

partner. Right, right. Or waiting for a meeting, you

know, and maybe like a week passes before you have that meeting and then that meeting is like 20 minutes and you gain from it what you can but then you're back on your own, you know. So yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 39:01

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right. So it's like it's your partner.

It's your support partner. It's your resource. It's ⁓

And at the same time, we do need to model for our kids who have the developing minds, who maybe don't have this many years of ethical developmental experience to know responsible use and that sort of thing. But in a sense, if you're turning and saying, well, let's see what ChatGPT has to say, you're modeling advocacy. You're modeling being resourceful in not just stopping when a challenge occurs, but trying to think of other ways ⁓ to approach maybe that math problem.

Mark (: 39:25

Of course. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 39:43

So.

Mark (: 39:44

Right? Are schools making that an intention to actually teach the kids about, you know?

Kim Zajac (: 39:47

I think that that, yeah, I think that

that varies quite widely.

Mark (: 39:52

Yeah, where you are,

Yeah, I would think so.

Kim Zajac (: 39:57

And ⁓ in the state of Massachusetts, you we do have some some guidance from the state level. ⁓ And there's been some some newer publications to that end toward the end of summer. But on the local level in districts, I think it's very, you know, at this point, still pretty individualized and people are still sort of, you know, districts are trying to make sense of what it all means and also thinking about their budgets, which are already kind of in tricky situations.

you know, what to do with all this. I how to choose the right tools, tools that are safe, tools that are going to have, you know, a high payout in terms of usability.

Mark (: 40:26

Mm-hmm. Sure. Sure.

Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 40:45

being helpful to a better learning outcome and not putting something on the plate for learners or teachers to have to learn a new platform. There's lot of platforms out there. ⁓ And there's already a lot of ⁓ digital curriculum being used. And within those curriculums, there are components of AI. ⁓ But in terms of an overarching universal AI ⁓ tool for districts, I think a lot of them

still haven't really put their finger on any one thing.

Mark (: 41:20

be a buy-in to that. But there also has to be money, as you said, know, budgets. states, you know, they support most of the funding for schools, but the federal government is still involved there as well. And with the, you know, the end of the Department of Education, all that's going on, I mean, you know, what, what hope do we have in the future? I mean, I'm not asking you to solve this question, answer this question. It's just it really

Kim Zajac (: 41:21

I'm ready.

Mm-hmm.

And it's a great question.

Mark (: 41:46

It puts a lot of, yeah, I mean, it's way open ended because really we don't know because it's still the fallout hasn't completely happened yet. But you know, the possibilities of school districts not having the funds that they need. ⁓ Just as the explosion of AI is happening.

These are the things that need to be uplifted. And you know and then of course you're going to get into areas when you got low income school districts and things like that that don't get the money and these kids are coming to school and they're hungry and you know they have these home lives that are so challenging you know what are we doing for them in order to be able to prepare like all this is great high and mighty stuff with the A.I. and the equity and all this stuff. Meanwhile you know this kid's starving. Yeah. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 42:24

Yeah, someone needs to eat, exactly, or needs shelter.

It's, yeah. ⁓

Mark (: 42:29

right. So

how are we factoring that in and are we factoring that in? It's really so much to balance and you know when families have it they're up against it. know some families don't know it because it's easy for them, they're well provided for but there's a lot of families that aren't and that's you know that's the tragedy of the system at this you know.

Kim Zajac (: 42:47

It's very real, but you know,

it puts the human back in the center, right? That's, you know, we're humans first. you know, while there can be many amazing tools available to us, we still have basic needs that need to get met. We need food, we need shelter, we need communication, right? And many other things, we need safety, we need, you know, there's just a long, long list of some of the basic needs that need to be fulfilled as priorities ahead of, you know,

Mark (: 43:05

Mm-hmm.

So many.

Kim Zajac (: 43:17

the

Mark (: 43:18

all

the precursors to be able to make this classroom content successful.

Kim Zajac (: 43:22

Yeah. And accessible, right? If we're not safe and we're not grounded

and we're not fed and nourished, we can't really access our learning the way that we should be. So it's a good reminder to not get caught up, as you said, everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Mark (: 43:32

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, have you felt any impact? Yeah, I'm sorry, say that again. Have you felt any impact from this fallout?

Yeah. Do you want

to talk a little bit about it not? You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. I don't want you to put you in a corner like that.

Kim Zajac (: 43:52

I mean, think just what I can say

is that just, you know, budgets are hard and when money isn't available to support, you know, sort of, you know, level services and level staffing and, you know, maintaining of resources and processes and equipment that have been, have grown to become just kind of part of the ecosystem.

it becomes very challenging and very difficult decisions need to get made. There are people that don't have jobs. are ⁓ technology subscriptions that are not renewed that became maybe a large part of the curriculum and how learning was done. ⁓ Pardon me.

Mark (: 44:37

Right.

Kim Zajac (: 44:41

So it's very challenging and it's one of the biggest, think that funding is one of the biggest barriers that I think of when I think of what gets in the way of equity. ⁓

Mark (: 44:51

Yeah, yeah,

for sure, right?

Kim Zajac (: 44:55

Because taking down barriers often requires rebuilding something else or rebuilding something in a different way, right? It requires different resources ⁓ than are available for its original form, which doesn't work for everyone. So we need to have resources, money, funding to be able to build the alternatives. that's really where we've hit some barriers, even just in terms of like the AAC stuff, if it weren't for

Mark (: 45:02

Mm-hmm.

work anymore. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 45:25

or ⁓ grant funding.

The things I described to you earlier would not have happened. So as a group, we cared enough about it to invest our time and effort into writing grants. We gained the support of our leadership, which was vital. And then we pitched it to the different grant resources and we're fortunate enough to receive the funding to allow us to do this impactful work of creating accessible, equitable, inclusive communication ⁓ pathways for our students.

Mark (: 45:29

Mm-hmm. Sure.

if they weren't for the grant funding.

Mm-hmm.

Great.

Kim Zajac (: 45:58

everybody knows how to do that, right? Like the conversation about grant writing really needs to ⁓ be elevated, especially in these times when we have less funding federally, ⁓ you know, that we can depend on. So getting, you know, creative in that way and just staying well read on what is happening because a lot of funding that was there is no longer there, but there's different funding sources popping up. And so being in the know with that is important, whether it's federal or state or even local. Like we have an amazing local grant organization.

Mark (: 46:01

right.

Yeah, I don't know.

Kim Zajac (: 46:28

in this town and it's amazing.

Mark (: 46:29

That's great.

I haven't read the article, but I saw something, a title of an article saying grant writing has changed than it used to be. And you kind of touched upon how it's changed. ⁓ But you lead me towards the idea of collaboration and leadership when resources are tight. How is collaboration, ⁓ how does it impact the continuation of providing a ⁓ high degree of academic success and education?

Kim Zajac (: 46:37

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm.

Collaboration

is so important. It's important, number one, so that all people can feel seen, heard, and part of a solution path that they are invested in. ⁓ People can swap stories of what we tried, what went well, what didn't go well, what we might try differently. ⁓

Collaboration is also important because you can pool money, right? Where multiple districts or multiple collaboratives or just educational facilities can maybe pool their money together for the same service, the same PD, the same whatever the resource or commodity might be to reach a greater number of people.

right with with financial responsibility and ⁓ you know that might free up some money for the other things that can't really be as well shared like the hardware and the software and things that would be you know ⁓ individual to each district. ⁓ In terms of you know collaboration among ⁓ teachers educators in a building yeah that that's super important too. Again everybody should feel empowered everybody on a team should have you know have a a similar level of comfort and understanding to work with students.

Mark (: 48:03

Thanks.

Yeah, that's, I want to ask about that.

Kim Zajac (: 48:18

who, ⁓ you know, really require ⁓ specially designed instruction and who use a large number of either accommodations or assistive technologies.

And I think also collaboration between families and all stakeholders of ⁓ a district is essential as well. ⁓ We need to call each other in. We're not calling out. We don't have to call out. Calling in is much better. It's more collaborative. Nobody's on the spot in a bad way. It's just, ⁓ hey, this is an important issue to me. Is it important to you too? Yes, it is. This is a hard issue. Yes, it is. What do you know about it? What are some resources that you'd

Mark (: 48:44

in I love that. It is. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 48:58

are aware of. What do your colleagues and constituents do when this is a question faced to them? And so just conversations, man. It comes back to conversations and communication, right? Right? And

Mark (: 49:08

right? Human to human, right? Sharing.

I think that schools would be wise to do more than just a parent night, a couple of nights. Do these nights where you get together and you have interactives and you work together, the teacher and the parent, and you're learning together and sharing your information. That's how we make it a stronger, stronger, everything. Stronger school. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 49:28

Yeah, connection. And it's how we make progress, really. ⁓ You know,

we are not, like I said before, like we are not keepers of knowledge. The more things we keep and don't share, the more barriers we create to getting to the outcome we seek. Right. So. It's so true, right?

Mark (: 49:43

I'm going to get that tattooed on my back. I think that it is.

And I found, you know, is it encouraged the collaboration and the sharing because, you know, there are teachers that just like to keep to themselves. They like to do their thing. They like to come into school, do their job and leave. And, you know, the collaboration could be their work or my work. Your work could just be so much improved by sharing because, like you said,

Kim Zajac (: 49:57

if you like to do everything.

Mark (: 50:12

Maybe you tried something that didn't work or you have something that really is successful. And not to have that pride, you know, that's going to say, no, I know what I'm doing, kind stuff. We have to be encouraged to be open. I don't know, you know, I'm sure that varies in school to school, but I would hope that's encouraged because I think that's something that needs to be understood from the start, you know. And I think we really need to take care of our new teachers a lot better in informing them and catching them up.

Kim Zajac (: 50:17

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 50:40

and not just throwing them into the fire. I think we really need to care for them and follow up with them in ways that aren't intimidating and putting pressure on them. they've got to, ⁓ my God, I'm being watched now. It needs to be softer and encouraged. And that to me is always, when you ever have a leadership that just puts all these rules and deals with you like they're the authoritarian, it's like you're quaking in your shoes, they walk in, you're like.

Kim Zajac (: 50:50

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's...

Mark (: 51:07

There's

no way that you're just being yourself in that moment and relaxed, you know? But when you can be talked to as a peer and your work appreciated and all that kind of stuff, that's what I think, you know, if leadership could just catch on to that.

Kim Zajac (: 51:10

Right.

Yeah, it is important. We have to create

safe spaces for everyone. And it goes back to that idea of we're all learners, right? So we wouldn't put our student learners in a seat of feeling worried about their performance and getting ⁓ spoken to in a less than favorable way or feeling threatened, right? No, because we know that they're learning. So we know our newer

Mark (: 51:26

Yeah.

constantly learning.

Mm-hmm. Right. And yet it does it. Right.

Kim Zajac (: 51:51

teachers are very much still learning, right? And it's super important that they feel like they are in a safe space where they can make mistakes and it's okay and have a commitment to learn from them. Here in the district where I am, it is a very supportive leadership team, so we're extremely fortunate to that end. But I do know from, you know, other conversations that I have and other things that I sometimes read on forums that that is not always the case. And it breaks my heart to know that

Mark (: 51:54

Yeah.

You know how long it can-

Mm-hmm.

Kim Zajac (: 52:21

that sometimes exists.

Mark (: 52:23

Yeah, I was going to say it, it's the ideal, but there are kids that do feel the pressure to succeed and there are teachers that put that pressure on them. And that's backwards thinking because as you said, they're, they're blossoming, right? All this stuff is new and we, have to treat them with respect as human beings, but we can't treat them like adults who have been there and done that. They haven't, right? Yeah. That's job. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 52:32

Mm-hmm.

Right. They're very much on their journey, right? And so.

Mark (: 52:50

Job

is to be empathetic and compassionate and wanting to share is really what it should be. It's just sharing right when it comes down to it. Yeah.

Kim Zajac (: 52:57

It is. It's sharing and having a flexible mindset. And yes,

we should have measuring sticks, but they're fluid. Forward is forward. So as long as we're going in that direction, it doesn't matter how fast. It doesn't matter if you go forward a little bit and then it went back a little bit, but then you go forward again. That's okay. That's just part it. That's the human condition.

Mark (: 53:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. They're constantly moving. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That's life,

right? That's life. We talked earlier, failure, we learn so much more from our failures than we do from our successes. So yeah, one step forward, two steps back, we can jump a little further ahead the next time because of what we learn. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 53:29

Thank

Yeah. And hopefully what we take away

is good learning, right? Like we learn from our mistakes and that couldn't be good or that could be not so good. When it's not so good, people usually stop whatever that is because it doesn't feel like there's any reason to continue. ⁓ it's...

Mark (: 53:42

That's a good point.

Yeah, now that's

a good point. I'm glad you pointed that out because mine was a little bit more pie in the sky and a little bit more, oh no, we'll jump back and we'll learn. But not everybody does or can because not everybody's in the position to be able to do that because there's a lot more on their plate than maybe the other kids that are going through the same stuff. I just want to ask you about executive functioning and emotional regulation a little bit because you cover so much. You cover so much. First off, this has really been...

Kim Zajac (: 54:02

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark (: 54:19

unfortunate that we can't communicate and have a nice easy conversation. ⁓ It's flowed, this hour has flown by and I feel like we could talk for a long time and so you know I'd love to have you back on in the future we could talk about more stuff but maybe you could just touch upon this a little bit if there's anything of relevance that you feel you can mention to you know inform parents.

Kim Zajac (: 54:20

You

I love that.

Yeah,

I mean, I think in terms of executive functioning, ⁓ I think routines are really important. I think narrating through routines is very important. I think ⁓ labeling and color coding things is very important. ⁓ And that ⁓ those are ways that you can help the disorder that sometimes accompanies executive functioning challenges ⁓ and sort of ⁓ make it a little

a little less mobile, right? Like those are some structures or some anchors that can really make things ⁓ more predictable. And when things become more predictable, we can then place them in order. And if we have our thinking in order and understand sequences of whatever it is we're dealing with, ⁓ that we are better able to communicate about it.

Right, so if you're feeling overwhelmed and you have this executive functioning kind of challenge, you know, swirling inside of you and there's so many things overwhelming you and you can't even really pinpoint one thing to focus on, you are not able to communicate. Right, so ⁓ in terms of learning, using structures to make ⁓ any element that would be deserved of order in a learning process will help.

a student to be able to communicate about what's happening, how they're feeling, and what they need in order to almost press pause on the overwhelmed feeling or situation that they're standing in and unpack it and also have space in that to allow another person to help them.

Mark (: 56:24

Yeah, I love the

way you said that. That's really...

Kim Zajac (: 56:26

It's one thing to pause

in an overwhelmed situation where executive functioning is sort of swirling and you're overwhelmed emotionally and your words aren't there to help you. Pausing is better than continuing to spiral. But if there's still not space and safety for also calling in.

Mark (: 56:29

Right.

Kim Zajac (: 56:44

another person, a teacher, a parent, a friend, to sort of then use your words and communicate through the challenge of dysregulation and overwhelmness. ⁓ That's more positive to be able to do.

Mark (: 56:56

Yeah,

so well said and important for teachers to be able to understand that, right? To be able to give that space. Yeah, to lower the stress levels and it is hard. And it's hard, the demands on teachers are tremendous and there's, you know, in my situation it was a small group of kids, but I mean, there were a lot of challenges in a small group, but when you have a lot of kids, you have 30 kids in a classroom, you know, that's one thing I...

Kim Zajac (: 57:03

Yeah, and it's hard. Yeah.

Mark (: 57:22

we can maybe talk about next time is just how do you reach all the individual kids? I know the universal design is set up for that, but can you really attend to the individual? How challenging is that? We don't have to get into that right now. We can talk about that another time. ⁓ Yeah, we'll put a pin in that one. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 57:27

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's a great question. A great thing for another conversation. Yeah.

Mark (: 57:42

But I think that it helps behaviorally also to have these structures in order to be able to know what's happening next and to be able to see the picture that's going to reduce the stress, it's going to reduce the behavior outbursts things like that.

Kim Zajac (: 57:54

Exactly,

because really communication is behavior and when communication isn't available, behavior still is.

Mark (: 58:01

Yes.

And behavior happens. That's the other tattoo I have on my back. Behavior happens. I don't have these tattoos, honestly, but yeah. Maybe for shirts. Yes, write that down. ⁓ Kim, this has been so easy and wonderful to speak with you. And I love how you express these ideas. And I feel like they're really accessible for parents and teachers both.

Kim Zajac (: 58:04

Yeah, right? There are great ideas though. There are great ideas. Yes.

Thank you. ⁓

Mark (: 58:31

And I can't wait for people to hear this and

hopefully take from this, especially the idea with Glint and Cast and all that stuff. I'm really excited about that. Cast we've touched upon with other guests in the past, but Glint I didn't know about. ⁓ But yeah, I definitely would love to continue this conversation and dive more into what you do and have you talk about anything. ⁓ Is there anything last message you want to say or you're good? We don't have to have it.

Kim Zajac (: 58:56

No, think this has

been so great and I'm just so glad to have been able to be here for the conversation, to talk about these important topics and just bounce ideas off of each other's perspectives off of each other and definitely would love to come back to talk more on some of these other important questions.

Mark (: 59:15

set that up. Yeah, it's been I love to learn. And as you said, we're always learning. And and thank you two for giving me some insight into what's actually going on. And, you know, because I'm not in it every day anymore. So it's good to kind of I can't speak from these places with with the authority that I used to be able to speak from, you know, it's changed so much just even the seven years that I've been out. ⁓ Well, you know, technology changes in seconds. ⁓ Seven years is like a million years. ⁓

Kim Zajac (: 59:39

It really is, especially lately.

Mark (: 59:42

Yes,

exactly. ⁓ but anyway, I wish you all the best until we speak again and thank you so much for your time.

Kim Zajac (: 59:46

Thanks. Thank you so

much, Mark. It's been a pleasure. Take care. Bye.

Mark (: 59:51

Okay, I'll talk to soon, you too. Okay, bye bye.