Recasting the Industry: Albert Bramante on Inclusion, Identity, and the Actor’s Journey

Mark (: 00:08

Hey, good morning, Al. How are you?

Albert (: 00:11

Hey, good morning. I'm great. How are you?

Mark (: 00:15

I'm very well, thank you. You hear me okay? Wonderful, you're loud and clear, this is great. Any trouble getting on? Wonderful, perfect, perfect. So how's your day going, okay? Yeah, okay. Just slow starting, but all ready. All right, yeah, yeah.

Albert (: 00:18

Yes I do.

Albert (: 00:22

Perfect. Not at all.

Albert (: 00:29

It's going well, how about you?

Albert (: 00:35

Okay. Good to hear it.

Mark (: 00:38

So I'm excited. The more I'm learning about you and what you do, I'm really excited to hear you flesh it all out for us. So welcome to the show. And it's a pleasure to have you here. And I guess before we dig into everything, maybe you could give us a little bit of your background. And you do a lot of different things from your agent, teacher, psychologist, AI expert, I mean, all this stuff, right? Really, really, really cool stuff, diverse.

Albert (: 00:57

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 01:06

How does it all kind of fit together? Maybe some little bit of background on how all that kind of fits together and what you do with actors.

Albert (: 01:13

Absolutely. I have a back, my primary role with actors is I'm an agent, ending of the day. So I, as a talent agent, my day-to-day responsibilities are to find employment for actors, professional actors in all areas of life, whether it's film, TV, theater, commercial, print, voiceover. So all areas of business. Now I also have a background in psychology, which coincidentally I'm,

The way life works out, my goal was really never to be an agent My goal was to be a psychologist. And I went for my bachelor's and my master's with the intent at the time to be a clinical psychologist and researcher. That was like my ultimate goal in life. And when I received my master's degree, I kind of started working in New York City and I started meeting up with these actor communities, going to volunteer work.

after 9-11, as well as some other professional opportunities. And I started coming across actors and other creative types. Now, just to slightly backtrack, when I was in high school, I was in a drama club. During my undergraduate years, I did take a couple electives in acting and theater and really enjoyed it. And so when I started working again in New York City around with a group of

group of actors, it kind of reignited that interest again, that maybe this is something to pursue. So initially I had started out to be an actor myself. And for me, it wasn't the right career path for me. didn't identify so much with it. However, what started to transpire is I noticed I loved being around actors and creative people in general. And so that was kind of like where

Mark (: 03:10

Yeah.

Albert (: 03:11

I decided to really set out that I want to work with actors. These are the people I really want to work with. I feel more at home with them. I feel more identified with them. And it wasn't just actors. was really anybody in the creative fields, whether it was filmmakers, producers, other behind the scenes artists, in a sense, regardless of whether they're actors or not. I just always felt at home with them. These are my people.

Mark (: 03:29

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 03:36

Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's very cool.

Albert (: 03:41

I felt much more comfortable in my own skin as well as just being around them. like energetically, these are the type of people I want to work with. And also at that time, as I was figuring out really what I wanted to do, I volunteered to film Best in Wolves. I helped cast a few films and then eventually I went down the path of, well, maybe it's time I can support and advocate and represent actors. And so 2004,

I founded my first company, which represented actors at that time. And also I was going back from a PhD because it was like I made a promise to my family a long time ago, especially my grandmother, rest in peace, rest in peace, that I wanted to be a doctor. And she said, I really want you to be that. And math and science were not necessarily in the cards for me.

So medical doctor was kind of out the window for me. So, but the next best thing with having PhD was therefore again, I'd be technically a doctor. So I decided, you know, I'm already halfway there. I might as well just finish it. And so I enrolled into a PhD program. did it online at Walton University. And while I was doing PhD program, I was also launching my company.

Mark (: 04:55

Right.

Mark (: 05:01

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 05:11

and trying to, you working to get that off the ground. What I started noticing with a bunch, with a lot of the actors I was working with, was the high degree of self-sabotage that was coming in. And, or, you know, what we call self-defeating behavior in psychology, in a sense. So what was really happening here, which is something I couldn't figure out at the moment, like, why was I hearing all these actors saying they want to work? They're really passionate about what they do.

But yet they would blow off auditions, come up with excuses not to audition, not be prepared for auditions. And I was like, a lot of these actors are getting in their own way in an industry that's already super competitive. Yeah, there's much more stacked against actors than are for unfortunately, and that's the reality of business. So, I, when I was...

Mark (: 05:47

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 05:54

It's stacked against them for sure. Yeah.

Mark (: 06:02

Yeah, unfortunately. It's just, Because there's a plethora of actors, a plethora of people who want to be actors.

Albert (: 06:09

Especially when you have hundreds of thousands of actors, especially in New York and LA combined, with only a handful of number of available. It's only one or two percent are going to working at any given moment. So I, when I was going, when I was in the midst PhD - Studies, we have to do a dissertation, which is like the capstone, that's what really gives us the title of doctor. So.

Mark (: 06:14

Exactly.

Albert (: 06:37

The advice that we received when going into this program was to pick a problem to solve. Rather than looking at it as this monumental paper, look at it as a new problem to solve. And in my case, what's up with these actors, in a sense, in a nutshell? So I presented this idea to my committee and advisors, and I loved it. So my dissertation was on self-defeating behavior performing - art.

Mark (: 07:03

cool.

Albert (: 07:04

And so in a sense with taking on a project like that really opened up my understanding. And it was a way for me to bridge both of my worlds together and weave them together perfectly. Because technically, yes, they are completely opposite. know, talent agents, they're really not the same thing in any capacity. But I found a way to uniquely merge the two together.

Mark (: 07:21

All

Mark (: 07:34

Yeah, and what an advantage for these actors to have somebody with that kind of insight, right? It's completely, I mean, it's a head game. It really is a head game. And so for you to be able to be there to support that is remarkable.

Albert (: 07:40

Yeah, well...

Albert (: 07:47

It really is a head game and I'd say more so than anything in this business. It's really a head game and I really feel like my research kind of helped crack it a little bit, you know, and go through it. So that was kind of like a way that I was able to get to merge both of my worlds and universes together.

Mark (: 07:51

Yeah.

Mark (: 08:10

Yeah. Did you find that there was much research out there on this topic or were you kind of you know, kind of new to the field?

Albert (: 08:15

It was a new, a new for actors. mean, there was a lot written about like self-sabotage for athletes or for students for high career executives. But there was not a whole lot of written just in general about actors in the psychological literature. And that was where I felt like my study really kind of started to bridge the gap a little bit and fill it up a little bit. So, and that's really the purpose of a dissertation is to kind of fill in what's missing from the research.

Mark (: 08:23

Sure, OK.

Mark (: 08:30

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mark (: 08:43

Mm And you know, the head games that can be played because you're judged, you're judged by your looks, you're judged by your skill. It's not just I can go in and I can read these lines really well. I mean, do you look the part, you know, maybe you need to lose some weight, you gain some weight, you don't have enough muscle, all these kind of things. You're too old, you're too young. So many things that can get inside your head, right? And just totally mess with you. And I want to get into diversity with you because I think that's something that

Albert (: 09:01

too short. Yeah.

Mark (: 09:10

you address in your work, correct? And it's something, yeah, yeah. And it's something that, you know, we need to overcome and make, you know, a diverse range of people give these opportunities to everybody, right? So it's not just the kind of people who look the specific way, you know, the Brad Pitt's of the world.

Albert (: 09:13

Absolutely, totally.

Albert (: 09:33

Yeah, no, it's all about the everyday people, especially now I work in the New York market, which in itself is already diverse. We have every culture, every race, every creed, all types in New York City. So if something is be working, taking place here, being produced here, it has to reflect the everyday people. If you want to get the actual viewer to be engaged.

You have to have everyday people. Even LA is diverse. So the goal here is to really create characters that everyone can relate to. And that's where diversity comes in. Not only from the actor's perspective, the outside, but also one of the areas that we need a lot more today is diversity behind the camera too.

Mark (: 10:04

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 10:10

Yes.

Mark (: 10:25

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 10:27

Because part of what for diversity to be effective and to really be.

accurate. It has to be authentic. So it's tough, I think, from a white male to be writing about the plight of a Hispanic female or a Black female.

Mark (: 10:48

Absolutely.

Albert (: 10:50

Because all we're doing is writing the lens from our own experiences and biases. We're not writing with the truth. that's why we also need, and I'm hoping to see more, rooms in these studios and more playwrights and more TV writing rooms reflecting more of the diversity so they can really authentically tell these stories.

Mark (: 10:56

Right.

Mark (: 11:17

It's such a great point because really that's almost from the top down in a sense, right? So you have this person who's behind the camera with the experience being able to tell that story truthfully because they can relate and they understand. That's really, really great.

Albert (: 11:29

Yes. Exactly, because it's about telling the truth. That's really what diversity is all about. So also, because it's not just about collecting people. Some people think, have a diverse cast? have one white, black, this, that. Great. That's wonderful. Yay. Good for you. Credit for you. But are you really telling that story or are you stereotyping? And you know, or, you know,

Mark (: 11:44

Yeah.

Start.

Mark (: 11:54

Yes.

Albert (: 11:58

Do you have also your unconscious bias that's coming out implicitly? Yeah, and the writing because how many times do we still see? You know the hook the the criminal in these shows being black or they may Being black or Hispanic. That's stereotypes. It's bias and Even though you can have great intentions in your storytelling It's still your biases are kind of coming down

Mark (: 12:02

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 12:10

Sure.

Mark (: 12:14

Still,

Albert (: 12:28

in the front front and center so that

Mark (: 12:29

Mm-hmm.

It's almost like it can happen. It's almost like it can happen, but that's where you have diversity to be able to kind of counter imbalance one person's perspective, I would imagine, you know, to have more people. Right.

Albert (: 12:40

Exactly. And it would be great in the writers room to have someone from every creed, and that can really say, well, this wouldn't necessarily work in this story because, and they would mention their lived experience and their lived truth that would then balance out the rest of what's going on in the room there. So this is something that's more needed.

Mark (: 12:44

Yes.

Albert (: 13:06

If I can help, I mean, I don't really consider myself, I mean, I consider myself a help for anything. not necessarily a pioneer. There's other great agencies out there, but I'd love to, my legacy would be like, I hope I can help make that happen or drive that force forward in that, in that direction. So, and that was kind of like a mission of all the companies I've owned. I I started Vermont the artist in January 1st, 2024, but even before that,

Mark (: 13:22

Yes. Right.

Albert (: 13:36

When I had my other company, it was all about supporting and championing diversity because we need more authenticity and storytelling.

Mark (: 13:42

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 13:47

So how are you pushing that forward, that inclusion and visibility for everybody? What are the ways you facilitate?

Albert (: 13:54

Well, it would be like pitching an actor who might be neurodiverse, divergent, or someone who might fall in the non-binary gender orientation for roles that might typically went for female or went typically for male. Doesn't have to. A secretary does not have to be male or female. Does not have to be white, black, or Hispanic. It could be anybody. If the actor's right for a role,

Mark (: 14:20

Yes.

Albert (: 14:22

then they should be cast in that role. And it's, you know, if you look at shows like that were really successful, like How to Get Away with Murder, Scandal, Orange is the New Black, that really employed diversity. And it wasn't, they were successful because A, the writing was great. And also the stories were authentic. Now, I do strongly credit the diversity of the cast, but I...

Mark (: 14:27

Absolutely.

Mark (: 14:41

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 14:49

I wouldn't say that would be the only reason why these shows were successful.

Mark (: 14:55

It needs to be supported with good writing, no question. Right?

Albert (: 14:57

Yeah, good writing and really the right type of actors too. Not just filling up a quota by saying, okay, this is what we need, but you do need authenticity in storytelling in order for it to hit the mark. Because again, know, ours is like I in a prison setting, if you just had all white upper class women in a woman's prison, no one would relate to that. I think most people would turn off after 10 minutes of the first episode.

Mark (: 15:02

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 15:26

I don't relate to this because what you really want to do in these stories is even somebody who's may have lived the prison experience, whether it be as a guard or even themselves being incarcerated, can say, hey, I can relate to this. This is more like on my level rather than.

Mark (: 15:42

Right.

Would you say that today that it's actually more in demand to have programs that are relatable? Yes, there's escapism, there's things that we need to watch that are fantastical and all those things, but in the past, it didn't seem like maybe that was the greatest driving force was to have something that people could relate to. Do you feel like there's more of a demand that people want something that they can relate to now?

Albert (: 16:09

Absolutely, they want to make it more relatable. Now, of course, we know Marvel, know, is a high-rated superhero. But even those movies and scenes and characters are now becoming more relatable. You know, yes, it's still unrealistic for them to have all these superpowers, it's fiction, it's escapism. But the accepted part, we know that. But there's also that I can relate to this character, this character is human. And...

Mark (: 16:28

Sure, that's accepted part, right. Right.

Mark (: 16:37

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 16:40

which David sympathizes with the character. I think that's, but we also love the everyday story. If you look at like the critical like James Louie, one that won all the Oscars and the Emmys, or the TV shows that won all the Emmys and the Golden Globe nominations. Very often it's because they move the viewers at a personal, spiritual and emotional level. And that is important in storytelling.

Mark (: 17:04

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 17:09

Yes, of course. Do you, do you just, I guess it's a little bit of left turn when you're representing, are you, people are coming to you, correct? To your agency, are you ever scouting people as well?

Albert (: 17:25

Yeah, it's usually a combination of both. typically, on the Vermont Theology website, we have a form for representation. if an actor wants to submit or pitch themselves for representation, there's a form for them to out. And that's one way. We also do word of mouth. We're in a couple of different directories from New York Agents, so we get a lot of solicitations from those publications.

I also attend a lot of showcases, are both at acting schools, colleges, we'll often put out there graduating seniors and graduating members every year. And so I attend a lot of those showcases. And then of course, referrals from my current clients will refer their acting friends or acting colleagues in which I will get. And of course, yeah, or I'll get referrals from other

other people in the industry as well, casting directors, personal managers. So it's a whole combination of things.

Mark (: 18:33

Right. Do you have on your roster, do you have people with neurodiverse backgrounds, with disabled people? Are you kind of one of the agencies that helps to focus and bring this community more attention? Do you find that yourself, you're kind of like in the upper echelon of type agencies that are representing people with disabilities and neurodiversity?

Albert (: 18:59

I would definitely say we're contributing to that. don't necessarily seek out, but I definitely welcome. And I do get a lot of self-identifying neurodivergent actors who will even wear them to A.I. and neurodiverse. And also I think that's a term that I would like to see more mainstream because I feel like there's plenty more people that are of this than

Mark (: 19:03

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 19:08

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 19:21

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 19:29

They didn't even know it.

Mark (: 19:32

Right, a lot of late identified, correct.

Albert (: 19:35

Yeah, so, and as a matter of fact, was actually on another, speaking with another podcaster who wasn't diagnosed until he was in his 60s. So, it can happen to all of us. And I also think to be kind of an actor mentality type, to really work to be able to connect to characters and to be able to weave into different worlds almost requires

Mark (: 19:45

Yes. Yeah.

Albert (: 20:02

some sort of neurodivergence to be able to do that creativity. So, but I do work, I do have clients that are on the spectrum if you could say that. I don't really like to point that out, you know, like I'm not gonna say, hey, you know, this is John, he's on this, you know, spec, no, I don't necessarily do that exploitation, but yes.

Mark (: 20:05

Mm-hmm. Right. That's interesting.

Mark (: 20:17

Okay

Mark (: 20:23

Sure.

Mark (: 20:26

No, no, no, but I just, but you have, but you're representing, you're representing all people. And that's, that's the point, right? Your doors are open.

Albert (: 20:32

Yeah, I have trans, I'm binary, have neurodivergent people in the roster.

Mark (: 20:38

Yeah, your doors are open, which is fantastic, right?

Albert (: 20:41

100 % and that's something I always pride in pride myself on and even other agents that have hired this company this is a non-negotiable that they you know that there has to be a hundred percent dollars in it

Mark (: 20:55

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on because, know, we'd like to represent all aspects of life and, you know, acting is one area, but it's also about the human being always when it comes down to it, right? So we're all looking for something in our lives. So, yes, we could be talking specifically about acting, but it really is representative of the whole, you know, when it comes to people being recognized and included in this world, you know, and so.

Albert (: 21:09

Yeah, absolutely.

Albert (: 21:20

Yes.

Mark (: 21:21

Yeah, so what you do is wonderful and I'm appreciative of what you do and I know it's a lot of work and getting into the mindset of actors, talk a little bit about that because you have that perspective and we touched upon it a little bit earlier. Maybe you could go little more in depth about how you work with actors that are self-doubting and maybe kind of just sabotaging themselves.

Albert (: 21:46

Yeah, well, I first I would kind of like normalize self-doubt and think that it's an everyday part of Being a human being so and being humble because I think humility is extremely important. So The one thing like, know going back to we kind of talked about our touch upon earlier It is a very competitive business and you are gonna be told no more than yes No matter how talented or gifted an actor you are

Mark (: 22:01

Yes.

Albert (: 22:15

And so there's a lot of different factors that go into this. The one thing that to really get into the mindset is as hard as it is, because actors are very passionate about what they do. They have a lot of drive and, you know, very love what they do. They love telling stories. They they love being not just in front of the camera, but just being on stage and in spotlight because they're telling other people's stories. So that's what gives them life.

in a sense that's their narrative that's all to give them life. So.

Mark (: 22:44

Yes, that's where they live,

Albert (: 22:49

What I often starting to, you know, even just gentle reframing. So, reframing the idea of the audition. Because when people hear that word audition, that means uh-oh and being judged or at least implied, which is not true. mean, the audition is just to see how, you know, if you're the right actor for that role. That's all it is. But a lot of times actors attach such a heavy

Mark (: 23:14

Right.

Albert (: 23:19

outcome and expectations in the audition. being judged. need to see if people will like me. And so they place a lot of excess pressure on themselves. So one way you can do this, especially with an actor listening, is to look at the audition as an opportunity to perform.

Mark (: 23:25

Yes.

Albert (: 23:38

And look at it, it's like you have two minutes to perform, which is what you love doing. So knock it out of the park, do the best performance. When you are finished and you walk out that room where you turn that camera off, you're doing it virtually, it's over. Let it go. Because it is outside of your control at this point. It is outside your hands. Let it go. The next area focus should be what's your next audition? How are you gonna secure that?

Mark (: 24:01

Yes.

Albert (: 24:08

And as soon as it over to zero, was great. Next. And have that mentality with which you're not attached to the outcome because you became an actor because you like telling stories. like becoming an actor because you like playing pretend. You became an actor because you enjoy being creative. Well, you had two minutes for that. So that's a win.

Mark (: 24:12

you

Mark (: 24:29

Right, now check that box and move on.

Albert (: 24:31

Check that box and move on. Now, if you happen to get further along the line or secure that role or book that role, that's even better yet. However, you're still doing what you love to do, and that is performing, being in front of the camera, and really showcasing your work. So that would be the first really reframe to look at.

Mark (: 24:41

Of course.

Mark (: 24:51

and

Mark (: 24:57

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 25:00

And a second refrain is to not take this personally. Because a lot of actors will think, I didn't get the part. They don't like it. It has nothing to do with that. It is not about you. It is about filling that role. So what I like, because I hear a lot of people tell me, I'm afraid of the rejection. I don't want to be rejected.

I want to be an actor, but I'm afraid of the rejection. So one simple reframe would be there's no such thing as rejection. It's just a simple reminder that your services are not needed today. So if you take it from that perspective,

It will make it a bit easier now because if you combine with what I just said first by looking at opportunities, performing opportunities to showcase your work and you're not attached to the outcome and not taken up personally, you'd be surprised about what you can accomplish because you're not going to be in your head anymore. Because a lot of actors, especially when self-doubt meets them, they get into their head, they start using their logical brain

Mark (: 26:10

you

Albert (: 26:17

Rather than the crew that they're using a left brain the logical brain, but they're not using their right brain to create a brain that starts to get shut down because you have the left brain chattering. And so sometimes advice that I would give for actors when they're performing or auditioning is get out of your head.

Turn that left brain off for a bit. Now, use the right brain, use the creativity. So if you can do all of that and perform.

No, I'm not gonna sit here and guarantee that it's gonna land you the role.

Mark (: 26:59

No, it's not about that really.

Albert (: 27:00

I don't have that authority. don't, you know, do it again. Really only, and I've heard the statistics being pushed around lately, that only 30 % of a chance of you booking that role as an actor is your audition. Those 70 % are other factors that are not in your control. But however, wouldn't it be great if you could harness that 30 % and make that a full 30 %? Then that would really mean that three out of every 10 auditions you go on, you're gonna book. If you have that...

Mark (: 27:22

Right. Right.

Mark (: 27:27

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 27:29

mentality of just not taking the personal and getting out of your head and looking at opportunities for performance.

Mark (: 27:36

So these are really great reframes. Not everybody's capable of doing it immediately, right? As you're sure you know. Right, that's where I'd like to just get into that just a little bit more. How do you help them get through that process or get along in that process? there strategies that you incorporate with them?

Albert (: 27:42

No, no, it takes work. It's a conscious effort, actually, to do this.

Albert (: 27:58

Yeah, mean, first of all, just affirmations over and over again. Sometimes it just needed to be reminded 20, 30 times. Just like in sales, you know, a lot of times when you, when we hear a commercial 30, 40 times that we finally buy the product. So they may, know, actors may need to hear this over and over again to get to that mindset, that thought process. Also, visualization is important. And this comes into

even just sort of like meditation or even self-hypnosis to come into play is just to visualize of all of this. Even before the audition, you go into that room, you run it through your head about giving a really good performance, a strong performance and feeling good about it. Not just giving a performance, just feeling good about it. And one of the ways you can teach yourself to feel good about the future is

Mark (: 28:51

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 28:57

to go back to your past and recall a good experience, something that was very powerful for you. And then recall what it feels like in your body, in your body, your mind, what are the sensations you experience? And now attach that at the same time to you visualizing this really good moment happening, this great audition happening.

Because when you start to really power that into your imagination, your body will then repeat the sensations you experienced, the time that was really positive. And the interesting thing with the brain is that it does not know the difference between fiction and reality.

Albert (: 29:47

So that's another thing that actors can do as well. Is just reprogram themselves for success by visualization. Also managing your state control, is again your emotions. State control is very powerful. So one strategy for state control, and it sounds cliche but it's very true, Tony Robbins talks about this, Amy Cuddy talks a lot about this, and that's power poses.

Mark (: 29:57

Right.

Albert (: 30:18

So, power pose. So that would be like standing up tall, shoulders back, stomach in.

Mark (: 30:19

Does it I've got power? OK.

Albert (: 30:30

you know, in a very tall position, legs wide open. So, and just for like two minutes, even two minutes a day, because your body's gonna, obviously your body's acting in a powerful position, then your mind's gonna follow up.

Mark (: 30:33

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 30:48

your emotions are going to follow. And that simple little shift can make a profound impact in your day.

Mark (: 30:58

Mm-hmm.

It's almost like when you're an actor and you're in a role and you put a costume on, suddenly the costume helps you connect. You become that.

Albert (: 31:07

You become that. And that's something that's really not talked about, which again is both a great thing and can be a curse at the same time. Because a lot of...there's one method of acting called method acting, which is based on the Stanivlosky method, a Russian artist and educator. So the idea is you become...you put on that mask, but it's not a mask anymore. It's a part of your truth

So you bring out parts of yourself into the character. You bring out parts of your memories into that character. The only problem is if you're playing, let's say, a dark character or a character who's really complex and intense, what can happen is over time, you become almost that character. And it can be sometimes hard to shut off when you're not

Mark (: 31:39

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 31:52

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 32:05

performing, which is a lot of people may not understand that, but it's almost the same thing as trauma.

Mark (: 32:12

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 32:13

Like when you see when it's a trauma how it's hard to turn that off too. So, and that's something we talk about. We talk a lot about post-traumatic stress, PTSD. But we also talk about, you know, PTSD, post-traumatic stress. Post-dramtic stress. Because you're taking on a role that can sometimes play into it. And especially if that role brings in past trauma that you personally

Mark (: 32:18

Yeah, no question.

Mark (: 32:23

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 32:30

Hmm. All right.

Albert (: 32:43

the person playing that role starts to come forward, come out in the spotlight. It taps into a past trauma which can then add on to current things that you're going through. And one of the speculation was with, like Heath Ledger, for instance, the actor Heath Ledger. Yeah, the Dark Knight after he played the Dark Knight. Now he did a phenomenal role. We know that he did a phenomenal job in that, even if you're a critic.

Mark (: 32:48

taps into that, right, taps into your past.

spark.

Mark (: 33:03

Yes, that was exactly who I was thinking, yeah.

Mark (: 33:11

Right.

Albert (: 33:13

He did an amazing job at that. However, it cost him dearly. And some could say that that was like the tipping point for him to, you know, that kind of ended his life. I would imagine there was other stuff unresolved prior to that. But that was just maybe the point that set him over the edge.

Mark (: 33:17

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 33:34

Yes, no, because I was going to make that point that yes, it's great when you can tap into that stuff because you can inform the character and you can become, you can give a better performance, but you're leftover, you walk away as you and you're carrying it with you.

Albert (: 33:48

Yeah, because as soon as the director says cut or the curtain closes, now you're left to yourself. There's nobody there. And you still have the thoughts, the process, and the minute. I've actually heard from actors who said when they played characters, villains, that they often needed a lot of time to decompress from that. There's one actor, I'm going to mention his name, but he played in a horror movie back in the...

Mark (: 33:53

and there's nobody there. Yeah.

Mark (: 34:12

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 34:18

late nineties and he did a lot of intense preparation for it because method actors really intensely prepare for a role so what he did is he played a serial killer in a movie and he spent an entire month before hand he isolated himself from his family went to a hotel spent hours a day watching serial killer documentaries and interviews and then had pictures of crime street you know

all spread out across his hotel room. You can imagine with the mage, unless it's all cleaning and shitting there. But, yeah, they're afraid to go in there. I, know, and then as I'm hearing that, yes, the actor gave a stellar performance in the movie, memorable performance, but it cost him, like, because he was having nightmares afterwards. He actually started developing dark fantasy imaginations and...

Mark (: 34:49

Yeah, sure. They're afraid to go in and clean that room.

Albert (: 35:13

all that, that he actually needed therapy after the movie was complete. So it really can be difficult. And I, cause I'm not an actor, I don't have enough background in performance mechanics. I do wonder if there can be another way that you can tap into this, give that creative performance, but also at the same time, shut it off when it's over.

Mark (: 35:40

Right, step right outside of it. you know, I, this is not self-promotion or anything, but for years I did stage acting, community stuff, a little bit in the city, but I was, I remember particularly being involved in one character very deeply and watching videos to get the mindset and all that kind of stuff. And boy, it was a downer of a play. And so I can remember just feeling depressed after that because, you know, yes, it feeds the role, but you are left.

Albert (: 35:49

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 36:09

onto your own devices once you walk away from that stage. so personally speaking, can relate to a little bit. That's a very extreme situation, what he did. And I can understand why he did it, because it does help you get into that character. But boy, it can really be damaging.

Albert (: 36:26

Yeah, and not only that, but there's even a part of like mourning when that little process is over grieving because it's like, yeah. And because the role's over, not only is it over, but you know, a lot of times, especially for stage actors or even film actors, when a project is over, very rarely do you, you lose contact with a lot of the people that you were sharing.

Mark (: 36:32

Absolutely. The other part I was going to say, yeah, the morning, yes, absolutely.

Mark (: 36:51

Yes.

Albert (: 36:53

an intimate moment with for months. I mean, you can develop large-scale friendships, but that's not always common. It's like, add a state, add a site, add a mine phenomenon. That can be hard for an actor, too. Because one of the techniques that's really important, this is what I kind of think that Neurodivergency said, but earlier, is an actor has an extreme amount of empathy, has to have an extreme amount of empathy to connect to a character.

Mark (: 37:01

No, no, I know.

Mark (: 37:06

Absolutely. Yeah.

Mark (: 37:23

Yeah, absolutely.

Albert (: 37:24

And a lot of actors aren't paths, because of, especially if you're playing a dark role.

you can easily become a strongly identify with that character and take on their trauma in addition to whatever trauma you have personally experienced.

Mark (: 37:44

Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, it's it. I don't think people realize that aspect of it. You know, the psychological aspect of it becoming somebody else and what it takes to do that. I mean, I think of like the Handmaid's Tale, you know what that must have been like for these actresses have to get into those roles, you know. Let's talk a little bit about A.I. since it's where we are now and you incorporate that into your work and talk about a little bit a little bit about how you do that.

Albert (: 38:00

Absolutely.

Albert (: 38:11

Yeah, I I used more generative AI. I'm not necessarily really have a technology background So I use it a lot for brainstorming I use a lot for You know doing some simple research For things or just just getting ideas and inspiration and creativity so And it's given me a lot of great information a lot of ideas on things or starting points for things

It is kind of like the way of the future. I don't, think it's a, what I will say though, when it comes to AI generated content.

What I often recommend for people when you are using this, let's say for ideas, content ideas or project ideas, to make sure that you incorporate your own voice into it.

So I wouldn't just do like chat gpt and say, I got a great idea. Let me cut and paste and use it as my own. Because if you've been around the content space, which most of us have been before AI, your audience is going to automatically know that this is not me speaking, even though the text may be coming from your image and all that. They will pick that up because AI is very formulaic in the language.

Mark (: 39:26

Yeah, inauthentic.

Mark (: 39:37

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 39:39

And it becomes very dry and boring. So it's important to take your own voice into it. Now, it can help actors with like, let's say, creating, organizing their websites and giving ideas and, and, you know, how to write up a bio, how to write up a, and about a pitch section for themselves. So that's where creatives can use, utilize AI.

Mark (: 40:03

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 40:08

Okay.

Albert (: 40:08

What I often do is like, let's say if I'm creating a piece of content or putting something together, I will obviously put down my thoughts and then kind of like may say, hey, can you use it in my AI? Can you reword this or help punch it up? Shape it up a bit. And then I still with the outcome will say output, say, okay, how can I...

Mark (: 40:25

Yeah, shape it.

Albert (: 40:35

do that? How can I change that? How can I then enhance it? So it becomes, would say rather than AI generated thing, it's AI assisted. So I think AI can be a great assistant and especially automating tasks. So that a very mundane, it can help.

Mark (: 40:55

How do you feel, how do you see it helping create more of an inclusive opportunity for casting and content, things like that? Do have any thoughts?

Albert (: 41:04

Well, I think it helps the brainstorming. I think if you might, let's say you're running a screenplay or a play, it can help format it for you. It can help maybe help you pitch to agents in a sense. So it does open the door a little bit more. Plus it just, gives you much more information in your screen, so you may not have that.

Mark (: 41:31

Okay, so something to lean into.

Albert (: 41:34

Yeah, I would say lean into it, but not let it be a crutch. Not rely on it 100 % absolutely.

Mark (: 41:37

not rely on.

Mark (: 41:41

Right, right, right. You know, when we talk about young actors, parents are involved here. And a lot of my content is towards parents and helping parents, support parents. So for parents who are, you know, who have children that are, want to be actors and want to support them, what are some of the kind of strategies that parents can use to stay?

grounded, confident, and supportive and advocating for their kids. And especially the kids with unique needs, like special needs and or exceptional needs. Do you find, have you crossed that much?

Albert (: 42:12

What?

Albert (: 42:17

Well, I would say first thing would be educate yourself on the business kind of thing. Really important, the business kind of thing. Also have a realistic perspective. So every parent thinks their child is perfect and the cutest kid ever. But I would say you leave the help to professionals when it comes to advising the child actor on things.

Unless of course the parents themselves are in the business too, which is great, but if they're not, I would say leave it to a professional. Like one thing that I don't advise doing is to have parents say, oh, my child's manager or agent. No, you're not. Let somebody else do that who's a professional - Do that for you. Now you could so advocate as a parent, of course, but let someone else who's not attached emotionally to the child, that can help mold them.

Mark (: 43:04

Sounds much healthier.

Albert (: 43:15

Also get your child into classes. They really want to do it. Get in classes. And also to address the elephant in the room when it comes to parents. Make sure it's a child's dream and not yours.

Mark (: 43:30

Okay, absolutely, right.

Albert (: 43:31

Cause I feel I get, I don't really, I do work with some child actors, I don't work with infants. And I will get a lot of submissions on my, my infant is cute and I want to get into commercials, like your infant doesn't speak. How are they gonna tell you they want to be in commercials?

Mark (: 43:38

Okay.

Albert (: 43:50

So.

Mark (: 43:51

when you run into parents who are kind of like the stage moms, stage dads, you can advise them. Do you give them any kind of feedback, strategies, things like that? How do you manage that? Is that something that is kind of like a red flag for you? And I'm like, now.

Albert (: 44:00

Thank

Hahaha.

Albert (: 44:08

It is a major insight, not just for me, but my other colleagues that are other fellow agents and managers too. So I would say that next time we don't, you know, in a sense. I would definitely might say, look, we're not the right agency for you. But there's really no way to handle it. I eventually the child is, you know, and I can tell you an anecdote story about this. I had met

Mark (: 44:13

Yeah.

How do you handle that?

Albert (: 44:39

I went for met for coffee with one woman mother at four children and she's like my four children are actors I need agents great so Which I thought was a little suspicious at all for one of the actors Typically, that's not a typical common thing. So I met you know, I did humor her and She had went the mother went to the restroom and do it it because to the

Mark (: 44:53

Right, yeah. It's not the case. Right.

Albert (: 45:07

her other children needed do the rest of them, so they went to the restrooms. The other two were sitting there, coloring in front of me. And they, and I said something about, what were your favorite audition story? They were six and seven, they had to be. They both turned up to me and said, you know, I hate auditions.

And I just do my back of my one on one. Thank you.

Mark (: 45:31

That's what you needed to hear,

Albert (: 45:33

That was all I needed to hear and I've never moved forward with the family. Because I don't feel like that would be ethical of me to be subjecting that. The kids are honest. That's one thing about children is they are. They are directly honest and they don't have any motivation alive. So I can believe that to be true. That's true, absolutely. So that is important.

Mark (: 46:02

One question I have is you're kind of at the forefront of this diversity inclusion. Do you work in tandem with other agencies? Are you in touch with other other agents? Do you guys kind of do you see this trend happening? And if not, do you see a way to kind of spread the word and make more talent agencies open to the idea of diversity inclusion?

Albert (: 46:30

Well, think just really hopefully they have an eye and see what's going on. mean, I think it's important for other agents to be consuming content, going to theater, watching TV and seeing what's what are the award winning shows or what's the Tony winning shows or what are the Oscar winning shows and to see that there's a diverse cast. Most of the younger agents, I would say, are more into this. I don't really need much co-sling because they grew up in this.

Sometimes the dinosaurs in the industry might need a bit of a reminder. But then again, they need...

Mark (: 47:07

So it's not something you have to really work together for because you feel it's in the conscious mind of most of the agents in the States.

Albert (: 47:13

I would say most, especially most younger, the newer agencies or the ones that have been around in my time pretty much would know, they wouldn't be much coaxing. I would hope not.

Mark (: 47:27

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Have you had artists who have worked for you who came in and you found them, you know, with the self-sabotaging, the insecurities and things like that, and you've seen the arc of the development, and have they come back to talk to you about that process and...

Albert (: 47:45

Yeah, I mean, sometimes it would be, you know, I'd work with them not downplaying their achievements. So, I landed a role. Well, it's because they like me. Like, no, you know, no, that's not true. I'm sure that had a part in it, yes. But that's not the reason in, because if you're not right for the role, they're putting money and time into a project. They're not going to invest in that.

Mark (: 48:00

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 48:04

Right.

Albert (: 48:15

if they don't really authentically feel you can pull off that role. So I would definitely work with that. Also the language you use. So for some reason society kind of romanticizes the idea of a starving artist.

Mark (: 48:19

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 48:36

the idea of the struggling artist. And so the one thing I would like to reframe would be, no, you are a professional working actor.

You are not a struggling artist. You are not a starving artist. You are a professional working actor.

Mark (: 48:57

Yes, I like that. Yeah, who in their downtime, excuse me, who in their downtime happens to maybe have another job while you're auditioning, but the auditioning is as much your job as anything.

Albert (: 49:00

So that would be the first thing.

Albert (: 49:12

Yeah, it is your job. that's part of, because a lot of people, I think, equate working with the concept of working when you're earning money. But you're working is auditioning. You are working. You are a working actor because you're spending those few minutes telling that story. And you really shouldn't look at it like, I'm auditioning. No, you're performing for two minutes. So you are a working actor. You're not an aspiring actor. You're not a starving artist. You're a working actor.

Mark (: 49:25

Right.

Mark (: 49:37

Yes.

Mark (: 49:42

It's a great perspective to have. Yeah, it's amazing. Are there any areas we haven't covered that you'd like to kind of touch upon? Any message you have? Anything important that you want to get out there and have this opportunity?

Albert (: 49:55

I think just the important thing is to know you're enough and to not just not to take this work personally, not to take the nos personally. It just you weren't right today. That doesn't mean you're never going to get the opportunity because we have a tendency to delete, distort and generalize when things go wrong. We delete the important things that good things we distort and we generalize it. I'm never going to find work that one no.

And just snowballs and when you do that, you hold yourself back. You hold your power back when you delete distort and generalized.

Mark (: 50:36

Sure, makes sense. And I think this is a great message for parents because they can be sort of the agent if they want to be the agent or whatever they got to, just to have.

Mark (: 50:47

Pardon me. To have that perspective that you're talking about, to be able to give those reality checks to their kids as they're going up into these auditions and maybe getting jobs, maybe not getting jobs, and more often, as you said, more often than not, not getting the jobs. It could take a huge hit on who you feel you are as a person and your self-worth. And I think it's really important that parents have the perspective that you're offering here.

Albert (: 51:03

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 51:09

Absolutely.

Albert (: 51:14

Mm-hmm.

Mark (: 51:16

Do you find that parents are aware of the impact that you're having? Yeah.

Albert (: 51:22

I would hope at some point, you know, because we, at the end of the day, all agents, want our actors to succeed. Cast and directed producers want actors to succeed. And so we're on your side.

And there may be moments where it may not seem that way, but we are, you on your side.

Mark (: 51:45

Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's a cutthroat business, right? And it's a really, really difficult business. to have somebody with a sensitivity and understanding like yourself out there, wow, what a benefit to people. So how can people get in contact with you to maybe work with you or to find out more about you?

Albert (: 51:53

Mm-hmm.

Albert (: 52:03

Yeah.

Albert (: 52:11

So you can go to, there's two websites, you can go to alberpermonte.com, just to know about me as being a being, but there's also my website, Bermontee Artists, my agency website, if you're an actor, wanna know more information about us, feel free to go to BermonteeArtists.com, you can also follow me on Instagram and LinkedIn, and under Alberpermonte, I will be happy to connect with you.

Mark (: 52:39

That's awesome. I'll put all those contacts in my show notes so people can reach out to you. This has been such a great conversation. I've really enjoyed it, especially, you know, having acted in the past, it's always interesting to see this kind of, to hear the stories on this end of it, you know, because there's always stories about agents and things like that, you know, that people have, know. Yeah.

Albert (: 52:42

Absolutely.

Albert (: 52:56

Yeah, I hear that. hear that. Absolutely.

Mark (: 53:00

but you're an awesome man and doing great work and I really appreciate what you're doing because we need people that understand humanity in all aspects of life and you seem to be definitely tapped into that, so how awesome.

Albert (: 53:02

Thank you.

Albert (: 53:13

Well, I appreciate it. appreciate it. And again, thank you again for having me on here.

Mark (: 53:18

Yeah, no, it's been my pleasure. Thanks for finding me and wanting to do it. Because again, I like to have diversity in representation across all different types of genres of work and things in life. And sometimes things don't come to me. So it's great that you found me. So I really appreciate that. And I'll check in with you again in the future, see how things are going. Always feel free to touch back. If there's anything I can do for you, let me know.

Albert (: 53:23

course.

Albert (: 53:47

Thank you, everyone. All right.

Mark (: 53:50

Okay. Stay on. Stay on. going to wrap it up. I'm just going to. Okay. So have a great day and thank you again for your time. Okay. Take care.

Albert (: 53:59

Thank you, thank you again. Take care.